Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence

[mrswah]

I think this is entering CT territory.

Only my opinion, but I would think  the CT has SOME good points!

[Myster]

No, but it should have been left where it was and the police called to collect from WHF.

I thought Basil Cock advised family to remove all armaments and ammunition for safekeeping elsewhere?  Why risk leaving the moderator where it was found, over the weekend and risk Bamber, on whom they had suspicions, breaking in again to destroy vital evidence.

[Caroline]

I thought Basil Cock advised family to remove all armaments and ammunition for safekeeping elsewhere?  Why risk leaving the moderator where it was found, over the weekend and risk Bamber, on whom they had suspicions, breaking in again to destroy vital evidence.

Which is why I said call the police when they found it - either have them remove it on the day or at least ask advice on what to do with it.

[mrswah]

I thought Basil Cock advised family to remove all armaments and ammunition for safekeeping elsewhere?  Why risk leaving the moderator where it was found, over the weekend and risk Bamber, on whom they had suspicions, breaking in again to destroy vital evidence.

If JB knew it was there, and if he did, he would have known it was vital evidence, I wonder why he didn't return to collect it.

[Common sense]

No, but it should have been left where it was and the police called to collect from WHF.

Absolutely. It was far from ideal but everyone present when it was found gave statements and evidence under oath. The only real mystery is how it was missed by a police search in the first place but seems reasonable to accept that the police simply didn't see it's significance and left it along with the shells that were in the same box. It was hardly a meticulous investigation worthy of an episode of CSI:Tolleshunt D'Arcy

[Common sense]

If JB knew it was there, and if he did, he would have known it was vital evidence, I wonder why he didn't return to collect it.

A fair point Mrs W.

I don't see any real evidence for a conspiracy but JB leaving such an incriminating piece of evidence behind at all doesn't sit right. I tend to think that he wasn't planning on Nevill and June waking up and the disruption to his plans and having to improvise rattled him to the extent he wasn't thinking straight. Perhaps he was worried someone would notice the moderator was missing or he was over confident that the police would accept his story and see no need to search the house.
 

[Myster]

If JB knew it was there, and if he did, he would have known it was vital evidence, I wonder why he didn't return to collect it.

Might have thought he'd cleaned it thoroughly enough and that no-one would closely inspect it ever again.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. It was far from ideal but everyone present when it was found gave statements and evidence under oath. The only real mystery is how it was missed by a police search in the first place but seems reasonable to accept that the police simply didn't see it's significance and left it along with the shells that were in the same box. It was hardly a meticulous investigation worthy of an episode of CSI:Tolleshunt D'Arcy

The family made a big thing of the silencer though, it was part of the reason they went to the police the day before. They thought it had a significance so when they found it, they should have insisted it be picked up. If that had happened, perhaps there would be as many issues surrounding it.

[Common sense]

The family made a big thing of the silencer though, it was part of the reason they went to the police the day before. They thought it had a significance so when they found it, they should have insisted it be picked up. If that had happened, perhaps there would be as many issues surrounding it.

I'm not sure of the exact circumstances, did RB claim to have contacted the police straight away but the police denied this?

But yes, I agree. The inference that the family must have fabricated the silencer evidence is something JB trades off to this day. I agree with Holly that if there was a conspiracy, it was someone in the police that fabricated it and planted it for the relatives to submit into evidence.

I just can't see that anyone would risk their careers and a prison sentence to do such a complicated thing. 

[Holly Goodhead]

A fair point Mrs W.

I don't see any real evidence for a conspiracy but JB leaving such an incriminating piece of evidence behind at all doesn't sit right. I tend to think that he wasn't planning on Nevill and June waking up and the disruption to his plans and having to improvise rattled him to the extent he wasn't thinking straight. Perhaps he was worried someone would notice the moderator was missing or he was over confident that the police would accept his story and see no need to search the house.
 

But why hand the keys over to the relatives?

[Common sense]

But why hand the keys over to the relatives?

Also a fair point.

[APRIL]

Might have thought he'd cleaned it thoroughly enough and that no-one would closely inspect it ever again.

From where it was placed, it wasn't intended that it would be found "ever again".

[puglove]

Might have thought he'd cleaned it thoroughly enough and that no-one would closely inspect it ever again.

The circular blood mark on the carpet, partially covered by the bible - could that be where he first wiped it?

[Caroline]

I'm not sure of the exact circumstances, did RB claim to have contacted the police straight away but the police denied this?

But yes, I agree. The inference that the family must have fabricated the silencer evidence is something JB trades off to this day. I agree with Holly that if there was a conspiracy, it was someone in the police that fabricated it and planted it for the relatives to submit into evidence.

I just can't see that anyone would risk their careers and a prison sentence to do such a complicated thing.

There is total confusion as to who called the police when or even where, but they didn't call from WHF. By the way, I don't think the family were responsible.

[Holly Goodhead]

I think this is entering CT territory.

Perhaps you can explain the following then:

- The drawback phenemenon is not usually observed with. 22 rifles and low velocity ammo.

- A silencer makes it less likely still.

- When it is observed it usually involves contact gunshot wounds to the head

- When it is observed it usually includes tissue with the blood

- No comparable cases in criminal history where blood inside a silencer underpins a conviction. 

- None of the forensic literature, research, tests include drawback with a silencer

- No tests/modelling have been undertaken to establish whether the drawback phenemenon is possible with the rifle, ammo and silencer.

- The blood flake inside the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of yielding the results claimed. 

- The non-porous blood stained rifle was unable to yield any results beyond human in origin

- Blood analysed by serology requires good quality samples of a certain quantity.  Heat and humidity are known to degrade samples rendering them useless for serological analysis. The blood flake had to withstand heat from firearm discharge, humidity in the cyanoacrylate fuming chamber and gunshot residue.

- Victims' blood samples were analysed for:
   -  Antigens - ABO
   -  Haptoglobin - HP -  Protein
   -  Phosphoglucomutase - PGM -  Enzyme
   -  Adenylate Kinase - AK - Enzyme
   -  Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase - EAP - Enzyme
The samples yielded results for all the above.

The blood flake in the silencer was analysed but unable to yield a result for the enzyme PGM.  This contradicts advice. I was given by the Chief Forensic Serologist at the Serological Research Institute in Californis that PGM is more stable than AK and EAP which begs the question how/why in this case the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'.