First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He did costing some 2k like the one in the image.

But Jeremy Bamber told two different officers two different takes — on the same night too!

He told one policeman “Osea Road Campsite would see him a Porsche that year”

Then a few hours later he told another policeman, who mentioned “money”  to Bamber, that he replied “Oh I’m a simple type. A little two-bed house, a small runaround, and enough cash in my pocket for a few beers at the weekend is all I need — that’s all I aspire to”

[ISpyWithMyEye]

No diagrams or photographic evidence exists depicting the blood supposedly found inside the silencer.

The silencer is effectively a hollow tube which features an expansion chamber one end and a series of baffle plates the other.  I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that the actual tube was examined by way of inserting a camera (if such things existed then) or even shinining a bright light down it.  We are told the blood appeared on the baffle plates and yet the defence expert was unable to observe any blood staining visually.

At trial Malcolm Fletcher (HO ballistics) said he thought he saw blood as far down as the 6th baffle.  John Hayward (HO biologist) said he thought the 5th baffle.  Why so vague?  Why no notes?  I thought scientists worked through these things carefully and methodically?

John Hayward:

Q: About how many baffles down did it go?

A: I did not make a note at the time, sir, but from recollection I certainly detected it on the uppermost four or five baffles.

Malcolm Fletcher:

Q: Perhaps you can elaborate on that.  We have heard some evidence that there was blood on the inside of it, down to about the fourth or fifth baffle.  Can you help as to how far it went down on your observation?

A: Yes I certainly saw it down as far as the fifth, and I think there may have been a little further in as well, maybe the sixth or seventh possibly.

Don’t be naive...of course the scientists and ballistics took notes!🙄

The court documents won’t show the notes MADE.

They just printed what was SAID by the EXPERTS in court

[ISpyWithMyEye]

457. Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated. However, the expanding gas when the bullet left the muzzle was under normal circumstances distributed into the atmosphere. However with a contact shot there was no opportunity for this escape and the gas would follow the bullet into the wound as it expanded. Back pressure would then build up forcing the gas back out of the wound taking with it blood and tissue which would in effect be blasted back into the barrel if there was no moderator or into the moderator if one was attached. He said that even without direct contact, the same effect might occur but only if the gap between the end of the barrel, or the moderator if attached, and the skin was less than one millimetre. He said that the likelihood of such an occurrence was to an extent dependent on the part of the body to which the shot was delivered and the amount of blood present at that point.

458. If the shot to Shelia Caffell, which was a contact shot to the throat, had been fired without the moderator in place, he would have expected to find blood in the barrel of the gun. If the moderator was attached it was "virtually certain" that Sheila Caffell's blood would get into the moderator. There was, he said "a very slight possibility of it not happening, but very slight".
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html



In other words ... if Sheila had shot herself blood would have been drawn back into the barrel of the gun.  If someone else had shot her using a silencer that draw back would have taken Sheila's blood into the silencer.

Sheila's blood was found in the silencer.  Someone shot her.  And the only person that could have been was Jeremy Bamber.

Exactly, Brietta

I don’t know what Holly doesn’t understand about that — it’s perfectly clear 🤷‍♀️

[Myster]

sorry to impose on this chat.

I've just been over to the blue looking for any electrical maps of the house.

Can anybody help please?

Thanks

Why do you want a plan of the electrics, Aggy?

[The General]

Why do you want a plan of the electrics, Aggy?

Should be the first thing you establish at a dinner party.
Closely followed by 'how likely is that dog to attack on a scale of 1-10'?

[Holly Goodhead]

457. Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated. However, the expanding gas when the bullet left the muzzle was under normal circumstances distributed into the atmosphere. However with a contact shot there was no opportunity for this escape and the gas would follow the bullet into the wound as it expanded. Back pressure would then build up forcing the gas back out of the wound taking with it blood and tissue which would in effect be blasted back into the barrel if there was no moderator or into the moderator if one was attached. He said that even without direct contact, the same effect might occur but only if the gap between the end of the barrel, or the moderator if attached, and the skin was less than one millimetre. He said that the likelihood of such an occurrence was to an extent dependent on the part of the body to which the shot was delivered and the amount of blood present at that point.

458. If the shot to Shelia Caffell, which was a contact shot to the throat, had been fired without the moderator in place, he would have expected to find blood in the barrel of the gun. If the moderator was attached it was "virtually certain" that Sheila Caffell's blood would get into the moderator. There was, he said "a very slight possibility of it not happening, but very slight".
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html



In other words ... if Sheila had shot herself blood would have been drawn back into the barrel of the gun.  If someone else had shot her using a silencer that draw back would have taken Sheila's blood into the silencer.

Sheila's blood was found in the silencer.  Someone shot her.  And the only person that could have been was Jeremy Bamber.

Do you think I haven't pored over this with a magnifying glass?! 

It wasn't "virtually certain" at all that blood would deposit in/on the barrel if the silencer wasn't attached.

From a book authored by Dr Vincent DiMaio - The Pathology Of Gunshot Wounds:

Page 326

"Absence of blood on or in the barrel does not preclude a close range or contact wound".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio

Brie my challenge to you: find a case, test fire, forensic research, absolutely anything, where blood is found inside a silencer as a result of the 'drawback' phenomenon. I'll give you a clue the physics behind the whole proposition make it impossible. 

[Holly Goodhead]

And when the UK Gov set up the Bloody Sunday inquiry why do you think it sought out the expertise from Dr DiMaio and not the likes of Malcom Fletcher? 

[Holly Goodhead]

And when the UK Gov set up the Bloody Sunday inquiry why do you think it sought out the expertise from Dr Di Maio and not the likes of Malcom Fletcher?

Here's MF's intro to JB's trial: 13 years experience in the firearms dept and a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  Conversely here's Dr Di Maio introducing himself at a trial in the US.  The difference could not be starker!

https://youtu.be/Ab2h2ceC5ic

[Robittybob1]

457. Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated. However, the expanding gas when the bullet left the muzzle was under normal circumstances distributed into the atmosphere. However with a contact shot there was no opportunity for this escape and the gas would follow the bullet into the wound as it expanded. Back pressure would then build up forcing the gas back out of the wound taking with it blood and tissue which would in effect be blasted back into the barrel if there was no moderator or into the moderator if one was attached. He said that even without direct contact, the same effect might occur but only if the gap between the end of the barrel, or the moderator if attached, and the skin was less than one millimetre. He said that the likelihood of such an occurrence was to an extent dependent on the part of the body to which the shot was delivered and the amount of blood present at that point.

458. If the shot to Shelia Caffell, which was a contact shot to the throat, had been fired without the moderator in place, he would have expected to find blood in the barrel of the gun. If the moderator was attached it was "virtually certain" that Sheila Caffell's blood would get into the moderator. There was, he said "a very slight possibility of it not happening, but very slight".
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html



In other words ... if Sheila had shot herself blood would have been drawn back into the barrel of the gun.  If someone else had shot her using a silencer that draw back would have taken Sheila's blood into the silencer.

Sheila's blood was found in the silencer.  Someone shot her.  And the only person that could have been was Jeremy Bamber.

And the only person that could have been was Jeremy Bamber.  Why have you taken such a narrow view? 

[Myster]

You really do have a limited understanding of this case, Rob! 

[Holly Goodhead]

Guys can we keep to thread topic please 

[Holly Goodhead]

Parliament has already acknowledged high profile quality issues at FSS during mid 80's:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

[Robittybob1]

You really do have a limited understanding of this case, Rob! 

Do you think Nevill died first?  I don't.  There ended up far more bullets in the house than what was in the opened box of .22 shells.  Could someone else come there with another gun?
Could Jeremy have killed Nevill?  Most people believe he did.   

[Robittybob1]

Guys can we keep to thread topic please 

We have to take DB's word for it that they found the silencer in the gun cabinet at WHF.  What right did they have to remove it from the scene of the crime?

[Robittybob1]

If Jeremy Bamber had committed the crime don't you think he would have not allowed his relatives to have access to the house.