Abduction ... what is the evidence ?

[sadie]

I agree Sadie, Amaral has been thoroughly discredited, his conviction really says something as such convictions of policemen rarely occur in the Iberian peninsula..

Thoroughly discredited?  By a technical conviction because the story given by his men was found to be untrue at the time and therefore his statement corroborating their words had to be false?  And since then Leonor Cipriano has been jailed for another 7 months for lying about the whole thing?  And you state he's been discredited?

Wow...

So let's just wait and see on what happens to his conviction then...!

This, of course seems to be Amarals ACE .. and probably why he has kept putting off his libel trial?
.
 Like Pat Browns fiasco this seems to be a complete perversion of Justice.  An altering of the facts.


Since when has a woman been tried for giving evidence in Court?  She wasn't even able to identify her torturers because a bag was put over her head as she was forced to kneel on ashtrays and be beaten up.

Just how could such an injustice take place?  How could a woman who didn't identify any of the torturers be given a further jail sentence for Amarals lies and whatever the other officer did?  Fill in false statements IIRC.


And why was this case behind closed doors.  Why was it at Faro, which almost always seems to find in favour of the PJ? ... even against all the evidence as in Michael Cooks case

What is Cristavao being taken thru the Courts for?  Am i right in thinking that he has "files" on everyone of importance?  Files about peoples unsavoury habits?  I wonder why he would want them?

Jeez PT justice system s***ks.   Nothing short of Fascism at its worst.  Democracy has come into Portugal in name only, it seems

Fascism in sheeps clothing.




Perversion of Justice.  Since when has a woman been jailed for giving evidence which she believes true?  She could not identify her torturers so did no harm there.  It was proven in two Courts that she was tortured.

This case ius Not about any wrong doing by Leonor.  It is about trying to get Amaral off his conviction ... so that he can be the "badly mistreated" innocent who has ben harmed .. so that he gets the PT peeps behind hin and so that he can fight the Mccanns off.  Please note this is only my opinion, but I cant think why else Leonor was taken thru the courts again.

Will there be another Court of "Justice" there in the Mccann v Amaral case  Jeez!

[peter claridge]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

[debunker]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

WHich timelines?

[sadie]

peter

have you been drinking?


My apologies.  I am old and tired now.  i must retire to bed.  I am a one finger typist having learned to type when this case started and am slow with lots of errors.

I have Swedish visitors coming but they will be leaving late Monday, so i doubt that i will be able to post before Tuesday


I would just like to say that I am staggerd that so many of you have not heard about the series of stranger pre pubescent child abductions in PT before.

I think you should think very carefully about what these point to

Good night

sadie

[gilet]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

What is your evidence for stating so categorically that these timelines are "an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction"? Isn't it true that is a pure guess on your part and not something you can support with evidence?

Isn't it perfectly possible that they were a perfectly normal attempt to give the police the most accurate possible details that could be remembered about events leading up to the disappearance?

Notice, I don't claim this is what they were, merely that it is just as likely a reason for them as the guess you made.

[gilet]

peter

have you been drinking?


My apologies.  I am old and tired now.  i must retire to bed.  I am a one finger typist having learned to type when this case started and am slow with lots of errors.

I have Swedish visitors coming but they will be leaving late Monday, so i doubt that i will be able to post before Tuesday


I would just like to say that I am staggerd that so many of you have not heard about the series of stranger pre pubescent child abductions in PT before.

I think you should think very carefully about what these point to

Good night

sadie

Thank you Sadie for those reminders.

I haven't replied to you before now but they are well worth a read and wholly discredit those Portuguese commentators on the McCann case who have claimed in the past that there is no child abuse/crime in the area.

[John]

One has to wonder what really is going on in some of those Portuguese villages?   

[peter claridge]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

What is your evidence for stating so categorically that these timelines are "an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction"? Isn't it true that is a pure guess on your part and not something you can support with evidence?

Isn't it perfectly possible that they were a perfectly normal attempt to give the police the most accurate possible details that could be remembered about events leading up to the disappearance?

Notice, I don't claim this is what they were, merely that it is just as likely a reason for them as the guess you made.

Totally transparent fabrications, no guessing required.

[gilet]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

What is your evidence for stating so categorically that these timelines are "an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction"? Isn't it true that is a pure guess on your part and not something you can support with evidence?

Isn't it perfectly possible that they were a perfectly normal attempt to give the police the most accurate possible details that could be remembered about events leading up to the disappearance?

Notice, I don't claim this is what they were, merely that it is just as likely a reason for them as the guess you made.

Totally transparent fabrications, no guessing required.

I challenge you to prove that claim or be seen to be posting utter nonsense.  Anyone reading here can see both the scenarios I offered are possible. Your dismissal of one without evidence would be certain proof of your inabilty to see both sides of the coin. Lets see your evidence.

[icabodcrane]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

What is your evidence for stating so categorically that these timelines are "an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction"? Isn't it true that is a pure guess on your part and not something you can support with evidence?

Isn't it perfectly possible that they were a perfectly normal attempt to give the police the most accurate possible details that could be remembered about events leading up to the disappearance?

Notice, I don't claim this is what they were, merely that it is just as likely a reason for them as the guess you made.

What makes you think they were writing the evolving timelines for the police  ?

There is a statement somewhere in the police files  (  David Payne's I think  ) where he speaks of how they gave the police nic-names    ...  the one they called  'baby face'  saw that they were writing on the book covers and said  "That's what we want"  ...  Payne's response  ?   "eh,  OK,  fair enough"

[peter claridge]

Because the timelines are an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction to have taken place driven by the Smith sighting.

What is your evidence for stating so categorically that these timelines are "an attempt to create a scenario for an abduction"? Isn't it true that is a pure guess on your part and not something you can support with evidence?

Isn't it perfectly possible that they were a perfectly normal attempt to give the police the most accurate possible details that could be remembered about events leading up to the disappearance?

Notice, I don't claim this is what they were, merely that it is just as likely a reason for them as the guess you made.

Totally transparent fabrications, no guessing required.

I challenge you to prove that claim or be seen to be posting utter nonsense.  Anyone reading here can see both the scenarios I offered are possible. Your dismissal of one without evidence would be certain proof of your inabilty to see both sides of the coin. Lets see your evidence.

You've been given the evidence, O'Brien misses out two critical events directly related to him.

By the way Jane Tanner didn't see anyone and Mathew Oldfield didn't carry out any checking!

[Chinagirl]

@ Peter Claridge:

By the way Jane Tanner didn't see anyone and Mathew Oldfield didn't carry out any checking!


Do you have evidence for this catagorical statement?  I suspect not and that it's just a biased opinion.

[stephen25000]

One has to wonder what really is going on in some of those Portuguese villages?   

Perhgaps a better comparison would be the level of paedophilia in the UK, which of course has been largely exposed in the Saville case, and that and associated cases is far from over.

As to the number of 'disappearances in the UK and Portugal, the scales don't match.  In a BBC radio5 program it was revealed over 100,000 went missing in the UK every year. In Portugal a few hundred.

[debunker]

One has to wonder what really is going on in some of those Portuguese villages?   

Perhgaps a better comparison would be the level of paedophilia in the UK, which of course has been largely exposed in the Saville case, and that and associated cases is far from over.

As to the number of 'disappearances in the UK and Portugal, the scales don't match.  In a BBC radio5 program it was revealed over 100,000 went missing in the UK every year. In Portugal a few hundred.

SExual predation on minors is a universal problem across societies. Collected figures for abuse are determined by time and culture bound strictures on the authorities. What we have seen in theUK over the past 60 years is the uncovering of child abuse, first physical and two decades later sexual, as social views changed and actions were differently assessed. This revealing of the repressed problem has happened first in those countries with common law, and then followed by northern European countries. The tide of realization is reaching Mediterranean countries several decades on, and has yet to have had any effect in Eastern Europe or the Arab world where individual and institutional child abuse is a major hidden problem.

[Eleanor]

I must admit that I am left in utter amazement about the recent trial of Leonor Cipriano. 
Two Courts have accepted proof of Torture of this woman while in Police Custody.  Two PJ Officers have been convicted of Perjury and Falsifying Evidence.  Three PJ Officer were Acquitted of the actual Torture, which wasn't all that surprising as Leonor couldn't identify them due to having a bag over her head.  But she is then convicted of False Accusation.

This is indeed a disgrace.

The PJ Hierarchy are currently pursuing all five PJ and Ex PJ Officers for removal of their Pensions.