Author Topic: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others  (Read 1770 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #150 on: January 05, 2021, 02:21:52 PM »
Because the search was for a child who had strayed and NOT a kidnap victim.
And they knew this for certain even while still looking for her?
“we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance” - Hans Christian Wolters, German Prosecutor..

“Conspiracy theories exhibit a strong obsession with detail, often taking the form of highlighting a tiny piece of evidence and blowing it up out of all proportion, buttressing their claims with a display of pseudo-scholarship.  When they examine the real evidence, conspiracy theorists do not accept that minor inconsistencies come from mistakes in reporting.” Sir Richard J Evans, author and historian

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #151 on: January 05, 2021, 02:24:23 PM »
Have you read the full court transcript then?  A doctor could also only offer an opinion, same as parents and teachers, however it seems that the opinions of those who never knew the child at all have taken precedence.

An informed opinion by someone who could testify as to her physical capabilities.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #152 on: January 05, 2021, 02:26:19 PM »
And they knew this for certain even while still looking for her?

There was no evidence of abduction.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #153 on: January 05, 2021, 02:40:22 PM »
There was no evidence of abduction.
There was no evidence to point to any particular theory, but the parents "insisted" she'd been abducted which you might have thought would at least be worth checking out by not concentrating the search to the very immediate area (as Angelo suggested they did because they  believed Nora couldn't walk very far).  In any case, by Day 3 they had certainly already extended their search as far as the location where she was eventually found.  I do find it astounding that with hundreds of people including indigenous trackers, and with dogs and helicopters utilised that she was not found for 13 days, 10 of which (according to the pathologist) she would have still been alive, and only materialised the day after a ten grand reward is posted.  A coincidence no doubt, but still odd IMO. 
“we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance” - Hans Christian Wolters, German Prosecutor..

“Conspiracy theories exhibit a strong obsession with detail, often taking the form of highlighting a tiny piece of evidence and blowing it up out of all proportion, buttressing their claims with a display of pseudo-scholarship.  When they examine the real evidence, conspiracy theorists do not accept that minor inconsistencies come from mistakes in reporting.” Sir Richard J Evans, author and historian

Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #154 on: January 06, 2021, 12:41:38 PM »
There was no evidence to point to any particular theory, but the parents "insisted" she'd been abducted which you might have thought would at least be worth checking out by not concentrating the search to the very immediate area (as Angelo suggested they did because they  believed Nora couldn't walk very far).  In any case, by Day 3 they had certainly already extended their search as far as the location where she was eventually found.  I do find it astounding that with hundreds of people including indigenous trackers, and with dogs and helicopters utilised that she was not found for 13 days, 10 of which (according to the pathologist) she would have still been alive, and only materialised the day after a ten grand reward is posted.  A coincidence no doubt, but still odd IMO.
Jesus....I agree.
It is all incongruent. I'm struggling for an explanation, save for terrain being impassible in places.
She will have instinctively stuck to the beaten path, particularly given that in bare feet in the jungle she wouldn't make much progress. This also explains the distance covered.
So to not stumble across eachother during such an extensive search seems improbable.
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Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #155 on: January 06, 2021, 01:10:50 PM »
....or.....she got up, went for a wander, some locals snatched her, held her somewhere and fed her sparsely or not at all. When the brown stuff hit the fan after several days, they killed her and dumped her body.
The 'killing' bit would be difficult to get past a coroner undetected. Strangulation or smothering would be easiest, but both leave tell-tale signs that they would almost certainly be unaware of (petechiae / hyoid bone fracture)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 01:52:20 PM by The General »
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #156 on: January 06, 2021, 02:42:17 PM »
....or.....she got up, went for a wander, some locals snatched her, held her somewhere and fed her sparsely or not at all. When the brown stuff hit the fan after several days, they killed her and dumped her body.
The 'killing' bit would be difficult to get past a coroner undetected. Strangulation or smothering would be easiest, but both leave tell-tale signs that they would almost certainly be unaware of (petechiae / hyoid bone fracture)
It's possible she was snatched by one / two locals who were repulsed or frightened by her disabilities and decided to let her go off by herself when they couldn't handle her anymore.   
“we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance” - Hans Christian Wolters, German Prosecutor..

“Conspiracy theories exhibit a strong obsession with detail, often taking the form of highlighting a tiny piece of evidence and blowing it up out of all proportion, buttressing their claims with a display of pseudo-scholarship.  When they examine the real evidence, conspiracy theorists do not accept that minor inconsistencies come from mistakes in reporting.” Sir Richard J Evans, author and historian

Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #157 on: January 06, 2021, 03:24:18 PM »
It's possible she was snatched by one / two locals who were repulsed or frightened by her disabilities and decided to let her go off by herself when they couldn't handle her anymore.
That too.
But they couldn't take the risk of her giving them away. If this scenario is on the cards, then they must've kept her long enough for her to develop serious medical condition due to malnutrition, then panicked and disposed of her when the searchers were upon them. Seems a stretch, mind.
The unblemished feet....weird.

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #158 on: January 06, 2021, 04:14:06 PM »
That too.
But they couldn't take the risk of her giving them away. If this scenario is on the cards, then they must've kept her long enough for her to develop serious medical condition due to malnutrition, then panicked and disposed of her when the searchers were upon them. Seems a stretch, mind.
The unblemished feet....weird.
This is why IMO her parents were right to expect an open verdict.
“we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance” - Hans Christian Wolters, German Prosecutor..

“Conspiracy theories exhibit a strong obsession with detail, often taking the form of highlighting a tiny piece of evidence and blowing it up out of all proportion, buttressing their claims with a display of pseudo-scholarship.  When they examine the real evidence, conspiracy theorists do not accept that minor inconsistencies come from mistakes in reporting.” Sir Richard J Evans, author and historian

Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #159 on: January 07, 2021, 08:55:04 AM »
This is why IMO her parents were right to expect an open verdict.
....or......she did manage to make it in to the she decent found shelter, but was still lost and was too afraid to venture out. Eventually hunger forced her to instinctively forage.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #160 on: January 07, 2021, 11:22:00 AM »
....or......she did manage to make it in to the she decent found shelter, but was still lost and was too afraid to venture out. Eventually hunger forced her to instinctively forage.
One thing is for certain - we will never know what really happened.  Her parents will be tormented by this until the end of their days, and I'm sure there will always be people online ready, willing and able to judge them harshly and remorselessly.
“we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance” - Hans Christian Wolters, German Prosecutor..

“Conspiracy theories exhibit a strong obsession with detail, often taking the form of highlighting a tiny piece of evidence and blowing it up out of all proportion, buttressing their claims with a display of pseudo-scholarship.  When they examine the real evidence, conspiracy theorists do not accept that minor inconsistencies come from mistakes in reporting.” Sir Richard J Evans, author and historian

Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2021, 02:04:34 PM »
One thing is for certain - we will never know what really happened.  Her parents will be tormented by this until the end of their days, and I'm sure there will always be people online ready, willing and able to judge them harshly and remorselessly.
Rest well, Nora.
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Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2021, 10:45:55 AM »
In terms of actual evidence of foul play, I believe there was none.
They believe she was found by a stream in a recumbent position i.e. had found water and subsequently fell asleep, probably in excruciating pain and perhaps slipped in to a coma.
The actual cause of death seems unusual for layman, as I obviously am, but apparently not unknown - "Based on Nora’s post-mortem results, state police chief Mohamad Mat Yusop revealed that the official cause of death was upper gastrointestinal bleeding due to duodenal ulcer complicated by perforation, meaning there was internal bleeding in the intestines due to an ulcer which was brought on by starvation. “The cause of death was due to ruptured intestines which could be because she had no food for a long period and also long-term stress,” Mohamad told reporters.

Perforation of a stomach ulcer can be life-threatening if left untreated. According to the Mayo Clinic, ulcers can be caused by a range of things, from H. pylori bacteria in the digestive tract to certain medications. Extreme stress is not a direct cause, but it can make an underlying ulcer worse"

There were no footprints around the body, although she may have followed the path of a shallow stream.
She had minor scratches on her lower legs, indicative of brushing against jungle flora with bare skin.
It is believed she was dead for 4 days before she was found, but I found it quite telling that members of a local hiking club actually eventually discovered her, which again indicates why she may have gone undiscovered.
It would be interesting to find out if this apparent search of that area happened within that 4 days, but surely that all came out in the wash during the inquest.

There must be grounds for the parents to push for a 2nd inquest conducted by the French or Irish government, if such a legal device exists and I'm sure they're exploring that possibility.
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Online carlymichelle

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #163 on: January 10, 2021, 06:26:18 PM »
....or.....she got up, went for a wander, some locals snatched her, held her somewhere and fed her sparsely or not at all. When the brown stuff hit the fan after several days, they killed her and dumped her body.
The 'killing' bit would be difficult to get past a coroner undetected. Strangulation or smothering would be easiest, but both leave tell-tale signs that they would almost certainly be unaware of (petechiae / hyoid bone fracture)

nora would have tried to  fight back if she was  being strangled sometimes  there are fingernail marks from  that

Offline The General

Re: Death-of-teenager-nora-quoirin-coroner-rules-out-involvement-of-others
« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2021, 09:55:33 AM »
nora would have tried to  fight back if she was  being strangled sometimes  there are fingernail marks from  that
Exactly, there's loads of tell tale signs - which obviously weren't there.
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