More recent events related to Madeleine McCann's case

[Mr Gray]

Do you mean a specific someone?

How do you know with 100% certainty they stole from you?

Yes I know the exact person on and am 100 % sure...as Wolters has said... If I told you what  it was you would believe me too

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Yes I know the exact oetson and am 100 % sure...as Wolters has said... If I told you what  it was you would believe me too

So how do you know they stole from you? I presume you have some evidence and it’s not just a hunch? Please tell.

[Mr Gray]

So how do you know they stole from you? I presume you have some evidence and it’s not just a hunch? Please tell.

I will tell..... Do you think what im saying is possible

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I will tell..... Do you think what im saying is possible

OK - please do.

[Mr Gray]

OK - please do.

So you accept its possible to know someones guilty but not be able to prove it.... Im looking for a yes or no

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

So you accept its possible to know someones guilty but not be able to prove it.... Im looking for a yes or no

That’s an irrelevant question. This is a miscarriage of justice forum. What is important is due legal process and evidence. In law there is a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond reasonable doubt. What I think subjectively on an issue isn’t relevant. What is relevant is evidence…. Does it prove beyond reasonable doubt that CB, for example, killed Madeleine McCann?

I suspect we’re not going to hear about your theft case because I’m presuming what it would actually show is that there is an important legal distinction between believing something with great conviction and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

[Vertigo Swirl]

That’s an irrelevant question. This is a miscarriage of justice forum. What is important is due legal process and evidence. In law there is a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond reasonable doubt. What I think subjectively on an issue isn’t relevant. What is relevant is evidence…. Does it prove beyond reasonable doubt that CB, for example, killed Madeleine McCann?

I suspect we’re not going to hear about your theft case because I’m presuming what it would actually show is that there is an important legal distinction between believing something with great conviction and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

It is also possible to know something as fact but be unable to prove it.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

It is also possible to know something as fact but be unable to prove it.

How do you know something without evidence?

In my opinion, legally speaking. you are both confusing believing something and knowing something.

[Vertigo Swirl]

How do you know something without evidence?

In my opinion, legally speaking. you are both confusing believing something and knowing something.

I wasn’t talking legally, I was simply stating a fact. 

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I wasn’t talking legally, I was simply stating a fact.

Can you give me an example of a "fact" that you can't prove beyond reasonable doubt?

[Mr Gray]

Can you give me an example of a "fact" that you can't prove beyond reasonable doubt?

I can.. I just like to hear you say its impossible.... It isnt.
Im not confusing believing with knowing. I know as a fact someone stole from me... But can
t prove it in court. So if its possible for me... Its possible for Wolters

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

There can be an objective event that has happened. But you can't know for sure it has happened without compelling evidence. Without the evidence you can only believe it has happened.

Legally speaking is important in this case otherwise you get all sorts of speculation dressed up as "fact" - as the McCann's know themselves!!

[Vertigo Swirl]

Can you give me an example of a "fact" that you can't prove beyond reasonable doubt?

A flatmate lends me his expensive camera.  He then accuses me of stealing it and goes to the police.  How do I prove beyond reasonable doubt that I didn’t steal it?  I know I didn’t steal it but can’t prove my flatmate is lying.

[Mr Gray]

How do you know something without evidence?

In my opinion, legally speaking. you are both confusing believing something and knowing something.

There is evidence in my case... Conclusive evidence

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I can.. I just like to hear you say its impossible.... It isnt.
Im not confusing believing with knowing. I know as a fact someone stole from me... But can
t prove it in court. So if its possible for me... Its possible for Wolters

What makes you know this particular person stole from you? You stated that you would tell us.