What constitutes child neglect?

[debunker]

And there is the FACT that the law in Portugal only crim inclines neglect with intention to harm, rather than as with the UK law, neglect with no consideration of the consequences.

i.e. in Portugal they got away with neglect.

If it had happened in the UK,


NO.

NO. You are wrong in both cases.


It is not illegal in Portugal and therefore the McCanns did not neglect in Portugal. It just so happens that you (with no standing in the case) happen to disagree with the standard of their childcare. So do I, but that is of no importance.

NO similar case has ever been successfully prosecuted in the UK. This indicates that it was not an offence if it had happened in the UK.

It is illegal to leave a child unattended in Portugal, especially if it is a small child/children, it corresponds to a crime of negligence and exposition to danger by artº 136 of the Penal Code whose penalty is a 5 to 10 years prison sentence.

Typical [ censored word ] and misquoting.

Portuguese law requires intent to harm which the Prosecutor found not possible to prove in this case because of the regular checks.

[Luz]

If the children had been abandoned with intent to suffer harm the penalty would be manslaughter to homicide (10 to 25 years prison).

I won't discuss the McCann here because it seems that the Adm. and the Mods do not like my views. I'll stick to the facts.

[xtina]

Ah you beat me to it luz....[about it being ab offence]

not a very nice thing to imply that in Portugal it is ok to leave toddlers.....

same as when k mcc said it was a British thing ...[leaving children with just a check whenever]

i wounder what the thought would have been if there had been a fire smoldering for 15/20 min's turning into an inferno..

would it have been the fires fault ...

the valuables were in a safe ...a safe place ......maddie +twins wasn't

when you leave children unprotected anything can happen...the parents failed them ...it should not be treat as a natural thing because it is not.

[Luz]

I'm at fault because I had promised to the Adm to stay away for a week  - if they want to punish me on this I'll just take it and disappear.

However I can't as a portuguese see the laws of my country be obliviated/deformed. If they were not applied in this case it doesn't mean that they do not exist.

[debunker]

If the children had been abandoned with intent to suffer harm the penalty would be manslaughter to homicide (10 to 25 years prison).

I won't discuss the McCann here because it seems that the Adm. and the Mods do not like my views. I'll stick to the facts.

Please quote the entire wording of the law

[debunker]

I'm at fault because I had promised to the Adm to stay away for a week  - if they want to punish me on this I'll just take it and disappear.

However I can't as a portuguese see the laws of my country be obliviated/deformed. If they were not applied in this case it doesn't mean that they do not exist.

Please quote the law before you disappear.

THe prosecutor found that the behaviour of the McCanns was not criminal- no evidence of commission of a crime.

[Luz]

Mr. Debunker you are a google savy, just google it : abandono de menores; negligência, etc

...you don't expect me to do the work for you, do you?

[debunker]

I don't agree debunker.  You are applying George's right under the Law to be assumed innocent in the absence of a conviction.  This is not the same as being declared innocent by the High Court.  The Court has made its views very clear in that there is an insufficiency of evidence to prove guilt or innocence.  The Law as it stands does not permit compensation to be paid in such cases.

When has an English appeal court ever declared anyone innocent rather than not guilty? They quash convictions and then decide whether there is an argument for a retrial.

Read the judgment.  A judge can make any ruling he so desires but in the George case it was held that the conviction was unsafe as against being incompetent.  Big difference!!!

Has an appeal court judgement ever found other than that the case was unsound. Iwould be pleased, and surprised, if you could produce a judgement of innocence rather than one of 'unsound". It is a principle of English Law that the Jury is the finder of fact whereas an appeal court reviews procedure.

BUmp for a cite.

[stephen25000]

I suggest you research.

Named members of the team were quoted in the press.

As to George, regardless of his failure to achieve compensation, wasn't the conviction overturned ?

So we are using the Press now as a source of Met staffing?

Maybe it is you who should do some research.  George was released since the court of appeal held that his conviction was unsafe.  He was not held to be technically innocent.  There is a big difference in legal terms thus why the refusal to compensate him and Sion Jenkins to name but two such cases.

No a list of some of the officers involved was given in the press ?

After all you trust the press, don't you ?

As to the second matter, I stand corrected. The police thought they had the right man, but it was the forensic evidence, no irony of course, which meant the verdict unsafe.

As to a retrial  ???

[Luz]

The General Attorney couldn't do anything about the neglect because he had only six months to act upon it. They all suspected that a bigger crime had been committed and waited too long in the attempt to find out what and who. His Final Report was such a messy "business" that even his closest judges friends criticized him about it.

[stephen25000]

For reference purposes................


'The law does not set a minimum age at which children can be left alone. However, it is an offence to leave a child alone when doing so puts him or her at risk.'


http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents-and-carers/parenting-advice/home-alone/home-alone_wda90761.html

Exactly. As they were not prosecuted, they did not neglect.

You are confusing the law with your prejudices.

Not at all. I recommend you read through the R.S.P.C.A pages thoroughly.

[stephen25000]

As a consequence of the criminal actions of a stranger Madeleine disappeared.  That is the opinion of Scotland Yard and one I happen to share.

Not quite.

Redwood in the interview admitted both possibilities, she might be alive or dead. He hoped to find her alive.

However, the team includes members of the squad who helped in the conviction of Barry George, in the Dando case. They got that wrong.

Not Quite to use your own turn of phrase Stephen.

George had his conviction overturned but has not been declared innocent since the courts have refused to pay him compensation.  In any event how would you know who currently constitutes the 'team' unless you work there too?

It was big of Redwood to declare she was alive or dead.  Is there an alternative?

Not if he gives preference to one, when he doesn't know either way.

Meanwhile the SY review was not entirely that.

All  the 'reasonable' options should have been investigated, not just a no proof abduction thesis.

[stephen25000]

And there is the FACT that the law in Portugal only crim inclines neglect with intention to harm, rather than as with the UK law, neglect with no consideration of the consequences.

i.e. in Portugal they got away with neglect.

If it had happened in the UK,

NO.

NO. You are wrong in both cases.

It is not illegal in Portugal and therefore the McCanns did not neglect in Portugal. It just so happens that you (with no standing in the case) happen to disagree with the standard of their childcare. So do I, but that is of no importance.

NO similar case has ever been successfully prosecuted in the UK. This indicates that it was not an offence if it had happened in the UK.

It is illegal to leave a child unattended in Portugal, especially if it is a small child/children, it corresponds to a crime of negligence and exposition to danger by artº 136 of the Penal Code whose penalty is a 5 to 10 years prison sentence.

Thank you Luz for that information.

[John]

Depends on your definition of unattended?  Is putting a child to bed upstairs while you are out in the garden enjoying a barbecue unattended?

NB  This discussion has been renamed since most of the posts relate to neglect.  TY

[stephen25000]

Depends on your definition of unattended?  Is putting a child to bed upstairs while you are out in the garden enjoying a barbecue unattended?

Not really.

The weren't in a garden.

The children were for the vast majority of the time unattended, by themselves.

If you are in any doubt as to that, contact the social services in the UK, the NSPCC, and the relevant authorities in Portugal.

As to why the McCanns weren't charged with neglect, now that is a good question.

To that though there is one obvious answer, and not because they were innocent of neglect and reckless endangerment of their children.