A reasonable viewpoint

[Eleanor]

These are just sloppy interpretations  of the facts which aren’t exactly false either.  Kate and Gerry are in a legal battle regarding Portugal’s judgement on Amaral’s smears.  What exactly is the situation wrt to paying Amaral’s compensation and legal fees then? 

And here we go off on another tangent.  This thread really should be re-named The Sceptic’s Shopping Trolley as it bashes from one aisle of tedious cheap crap to the other.

Hey you.  It's still really okay.  The McCanns have nothing much to worry about and still enough in The Fund to meet this.  And it still won't make them guilty.

I feel as though I have just said something that doesn't matter.  But then it doesn't.

I have had such a learning curve for my own sake and how I now deal with society in general. And I know that I will never be so absolutely awful.

And Yes, being a Moderator has helped.

I think that we just have to stagger on if we want to.

[Brietta]

Just because the report doesn’t explicitly state who said the men appeared to be German-speaking doesn’t mean it must automatically be disbelieved.  There are news reports every day filled with information gleaned by journalists who don’t find it necessary to name every single source or explain exactly how they came by the information.  Journalists by and large have a reputation to uphold and that reputation is made or broken on how truthful, accurate and responsible is their reporting.  One has to be exert a modicum of commonsense sometimes and consider why a journalist would invent such a relatively minor detail.  It seems highly unlikely that they would simply make it up so I exercise the benefit of the doubt and accept it was reported in good faith.

That is a reasonable viewpoint.

[Eleanor]

That is a reasonable viewpoint.

Isn't that the whole point?

[Eleanor]

It has crossed my mind that I might not have liked The McCanns all that much.  Or perhaps they might not have liked me. I am pretty certain sure that they were better parents than I ever was.

[misty]

I think 'German speaking' was not what the witnesses said. Unless the men were shouting they wouldn't have heard them from the path anyway.

I think this clip from the Dutch "Crimewatch" 2013 sheds some light on the confusion.
https://youtu.be/xyp2Buvv8pM?t=602  (watch to 11m43secs).
My understanding is that ex DCI Redwood was suggesting a link between the 2 men Jayne Jenson & Annie Wilshire saw on the balcony of 5C at around 2.30pm on 3/5/07 & 2 men (one with blond hair) seen in an internet cafe nearby on the previous day & heard to be speaking in German.
The efits shown near the start of the clip may or may not be representative of one of the "German" pair under discussion.

[Brietta]

I think this clip from the Dutch "Crimewatch" 2013 sheds some light on the confusion.
https://youtu.be/xyp2Buvv8pM?t=602  (watch to 11m43secs).
My understanding is that ex DCI Redwood was suggesting a link between the 2 men Jayne Jenson & Annie Wilshire saw on the balcony of 5C at around 2.30pm on 3/5/07 & 2 men (one with blond hair) seen in an internet cafe nearby on the previous day & heard to be speaking in German.
The efits shown near the start of the clip may or may not be representative of one of the "German" pair under discussion.

Thank you Misty.  Different witnesses.  Different sightings.  Logical.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think this clip from the Dutch "Crimewatch" 2013 sheds some light on the confusion.
https://youtu.be/xyp2Buvv8pM?t=602  (watch to 11m43secs).
My understanding is that ex DCI Redwood was suggesting a link between the 2 men Jayne Jenson & Annie Wilshire saw on the balcony of 5C at around 2.30pm on 3/5/07 & 2 men (one with blond hair) seen in an internet cafe nearby on the previous day & heard to be speaking in German.
The efits shown near the start of the clip may or may not be representative of one of the "German" pair under discussion.

Bingo!

[G-Unit]

These are just sloppy interpretations  of the facts which aren’t exactly false either.  Kate and Gerry are in a legal battle regarding Portugal’s judgement on Amaral’s smears.  What exactly is the situation wrt to paying Amaral’s compensation and legal fees then? 

And here we go off on another tangent.  This thread really should be re-named The Sceptic’s Shopping Trolley as it bashes from one aisle of tedious cheap crap to the other.

I assure you the story was untrue, not sloppy. Neither am I interested in discussing that fact, it's just one example of the misreporting in the case.

Len Port's article, which is what we should be discussing, says;

"Not everyone believes what they hear on television news channels or read in newspapers. ‘Churnalistic’ and seemingly servile coverage of this case gives rise to distrust."

Unfortunately, some people just swallow whatever journalists choose to write without question.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I assure you the story was untrue, not sloppy. Neither am I interested in discussing that fact, it's just one example of the misreporting in the case.

Len Port's article, which is what we should be discussing, says;

"Not everyone believes what they hear on television news channels or read in newspapers. ‘Churnalistic’ and seemingly servile coverage of this case gives rise to distrust."

Unfortunately, some people just swallow whatever journalists choose to write without question.

And some people automatically reach for the excuse that obviously it’s all made up by the media when they read something that challenges their own belief system.  Try a bit of nuance, accept that not everything is as black and white as “truth” or “lie”, that things do get misreported is undeniable but it’s rarely outright journalistic invention, as has now been shown wrt the German-speaking suspects.

[G-Unit]

I think this clip from the Dutch "Crimewatch" 2013 sheds some light on the confusion.
https://youtu.be/xyp2Buvv8pM?t=602  (watch to 11m43secs).
My understanding is that ex DCI Redwood was suggesting a link between the 2 men Jayne Jenson & Annie Wilshire saw on the balcony of 5C at around 2.30pm on 3/5/07 & 2 men (one with blond hair) seen in an internet cafe nearby on the previous day & heard to be speaking in German.
The efits shown near the start of the clip may or may not be representative of one of the "German" pair under discussion.

Thank you Misty, that certainly explains the story. A rather tenuous possible connection between these men became 'men on a balcony speaking in German'.

I wonder on what basis Redwood claimed that the man seen by Carol Tranmer was leaving the garden of 5C? She didn't say that afaik.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think you can work out which bits can be relied on. Inventing possible witnesses to support a story is a bit of a desperate move imo.

Perhaps you could retract this claim now?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Thank you Misty, that certainly explains the story. A rather tenuous possible connection between these men became 'men on a balcony speaking in German'.

I wonder on what basis Redwood claimed that the man seen by Carol Tranmer was leaving the garden of 5C? She didn't say that afaik.

Sorry, which report claimed the men on the balcony were speaking German?

[jassi]

Take that to Court.

Even courts only  decide their version of the truth.

[G-Unit]

And some people automatically reach for the excuse that obviously it’s all made up by the media when they read something that challenges their own belief system.  Try a bit of nuance, accept that not everything is as black and white as “truth” or “lie”, that things do get misreported is undeniable but it’s rarely outright journalistic invention, as has now been shown wrt the German-speaking suspects.

Journalists have a habit of reporting speculation as fact, which is what this example shows. There was no evidence that the men on the balcony were German speaking, but that's how a journalist chose to describe them.

Not only was this believed by those whose belief systems it supported, more speculation followed;

"Quite obviously the referral to German or Dutch speakers in the later report emanates from a witness who actually heard these two men in conversation.
The sisters SAW them."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12280.msg672558#msg672558

It seems two men were heard speaking in German; in an internet cafe. Were they the same men seen on the balcony? No connection was established afaik.

[jassi]

Even speaking German doesn't mean that they were German - it might just have been a common language between them.