Anectdotal witness evidence

[barrier]

Getting on toward 15 yrs later Grime and his dogs still cause angst among supporters , you have to wonder why when Wolters has CB as a nailed on one that dunnit.

[Brietta]

There was no annecdotal evidence connected to the dog alerts in this case, but there was lots of annecdotal evidence;

All the times given in the timeline.
The open window and shutter.
The conversation with Madeleine on the morning of 3rd May.
All reports of suspicious looking men.

My understanding is that anecdotal evidence is an account given by witnesses of an event.  Every account given by that witness will be unique to the personal experience of that individual and even their locus and viewpoint at the time.

That is why it is no mystery there might be discrepancies in statements given by a number of witnesses to the same event - in fact I think it would be decidedly odd if there was not.
The Policia Judiciaria understood that even if Amaral sceptics affect not to.

You are driving a coach and horses through honest witness statements and foisting abroad your mysteriously biased opinion of events which they experienced and you did not.  Selectively accepting what it suits you to believe however illogical - is exactly the ill informed trap Amaral fell into which had such dire consequences in preventing a properly conducted investigation to take place.

[Brietta]

Getting on toward 15 yrs later Grime and his dogs still cause angst among supporters , you have to wonder why when Wolters has CB as a nailed on one that dunnit.

I think you've got that one the wrong way round - just as sceptics always have.  However is there the slightest chance of you desisting from your usual deflection and sticking to the topic as a responsible poster should.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Getting on toward 15 yrs later Grime and his dogs still cause angst among supporters , you have to wonder why when Wolters has CB as a nailed on one that dunnit.

  Poor attempt at WUMming there, must try harder. 

[Icanhandlethetruth]

martin grime claims the alerts can be corroborated by anectdotal witness evidence....but Anectdotal evidence is defined as..

Anecdotal evidence is a factual claim relying only on personal observation, collected in a casual or non-systematic manner. The term is sometimes used in a legal context to describe certain kinds of testimony which are uncorroborated by objective, independent evidence such as notarized documentation, photographs, audio-visual recordings, etc.

so grime thinks his alerts can be corroborated by evidece which is not corroborated.....is this from the Alice in Wonderland School of Logic

If I remember last year you were going on about ACPO licencing being unreliable because Grime used the word anecdotal when referencing training. I put you straight on that one at the time unless you still believe ACPO licence dogs by swapping anecdotes.
Now it raises it head again. It is quite clear and obvious that Martin Grime is referring to witness statements of an account the witness observed or experienced. He even explicitly states this in his 2007 statement to the PJ “anecdotal witness accounts.”

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm.

No it is not scientific but not all evidence is, an eye witness statement can not be proved to be reliable by scientific methods but a whole lot of people have been sentenced on the back of them.

IMO you can’t see the wood for the trees and get fixated on small details and words out of context then never let them go. No disrespect intended, just imo.

But beside from all that I would like to wish you and your family a very merry Xmas and a happy New Year.

[Mr Gray]

If I remember last year you were going on about ACPO training being unreliable because Grime used the word anecdotal when referencing training. I put you straight on that one at the time unless you still believe ACPO train dogs by swapping anecdotes.
Now it raises it head again. It is quite clear and obvious that Martin Grime is referring to witness statements of an account the witness observed or experienced. He even explicitly states this in his 2007 statement to the PJ “anecdotal witness accounts.”

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm.

No it is not scientific but not all evidence is, an eye witness statement can not be proved to be reliable by scientific methods but a whole lot of people have been sentenced on the back of them.

IMO you can’t see the wood for the trees and get fixated on small details and words out of context then never let them go. No disrespect intended, just imo.

But beside from all that I would like to wish you and your family a very merry Xmas and a happy New Year.

More horseshit from you.. You completely miss the point.
The point is Grime says that anectdotal witness statements can corroborate the alerts.  That is a totally daft statement.
It would actually mean any alert could be corroborated before it was made.  If you can't see that anectdotal evidence does not conglfirm anything. It can be part if a body of evidence but that's all.


Grime is the only dog handler I've heard whoi has made such a daft statement.

Could you give an anectdotal witness statement that would corroborate an alert.
In 2007 Grime used the word.. Support an alert.

If you think that pointing out that support and corroborate are significantly different you have little understang if the importance if accuracy..... As already evidenced by your poor understanding of Wolters statement Re photographs

[Icanhandlethetruth]

More horseshit from you.. You completely miss the point.
The point is Grime says that anectdotal witness statements can corroborate the alerts.  That is a totally daft statement.
It would actually mean any alert could be corroborated before it was made.  If you can't see that anectdotal evidence does not conglfirm anything. It can be part if a body of evidence but that's all.


Grime is the only dog handler I've heard whoi has made such a daft statement.

Could you give an anectdotal witness statement that would corroborate an alert.
In 2007 Grime used the word.. Support an alert.

If you think that pointing out that support and corroborate are significantly different you have little understang if the importance if accuracy..... As already evidenced by your poor understanding of Wolters statement Re photographs

You really need to buy a dictionary or thesaurus, the word corroborate means “confirm or give support to”.

Its very basic English.

No Xmas blessings. You scrooge you.

[Mr Gray]

You really need to buy a dictionary or thesaurus, the word corroborate means “confirm or give support to”.

Its very basic English.

No Xmas blessings. You scrooge you.

I think you over estimate the value of your own opinion.
So when Grime says anectdotal witness, statements ..

corroborate an alert that can be read as confirming it


Again you need  to understand  the difference between confirm and support and when commenting on legal matters Grime needs to be less slopoy with his language

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I think you over estimate the value of your own opinion.
So when Grime says anectdotal witness, statements ..

corroborate an alert that can be read as confirming it


Again you need  to understand  the difference between confirm and support and when commenting on legal matters Grime needs to be less slopoy with his language

Its not an opinion that the word corroborate means to “confirm or give support to”.
Its very basic English.
No one else here seems to have a problem that Grime means witness statement even Brietta points this out to you. You just choose to ignore it.

Wood from the trees, wood from the trees.

[Mr Gray]

Its not an opinion that the word corroborate means to “confirm or give support to”.
Its very basic English.
No one else here seems to have a problem that Grime means witness statement even Brietta points this out to you. You just choose to ignore it.

Wood from the trees, wood from the trees.

I was reffering to your previous posts and your opinion that  I cannot see the wood for the trees.
My opinion..

The whole alert episodes are, a complete dogs dinner because the significance if them has not been full thought through... Hence Harrisons contradictory statements in 2007.
Grime also said in 2007 that the only alerts that could become corroborated were the CSI alerts.. Excluding the cadaver alerts.  Now Grime is contradicting himself. 
Harrison talked if corroboration being a bidy.. Bbody parts or physical evidence.. They both contradict each other

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I was reffering to your previous posts and your opinion that  I cannot see the wood for the trees.
My opinion..

The whole alert episodes are, a complete dogs dinner because the significance if them has not been full thought through... Hence Harrisons contradictory statements in 2007.
Grime also said in 2007 that the only alerts that could become corroborated were the CSI alerts.. Excluding the cadaver alerts.  Now Grime is contradicting himself. 
Harrison talked if corroboration being a bidy.. Bbody parts or physical evidence.. They both contradict each other

But you do accept that the use of anecdotal witness evidence is a real thing that corroborates (supports) an alert.
That is what this thread is about.
Its not from the Alice in Wonderland school of logic, its from the real world of logic.

[Mr Gray]

But you do accept that the use of anecdotal witness evidence is a real thing that corroborates (supports) an alert.
That is what this thread is about.
Its not from the Alice in Wonderland school of logic, its from the real world of logic.

After the conclusion of the searches, a meeting in the Portimao offices of the PJ took place in the cabinet of Goncalo AMARAL and those present included Guilermino ENCARNACO, an official representative from the Leicestershire police, Martin GRIME and myself. During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.

Why has Grime changed his mind

[Icanhandlethetruth]

After the conclusion of the searches, a meeting in the Portimao offices of the PJ took place in the cabinet of Goncalo AMARAL and those present included Guilermino ENCARNACO, an official representative from the Leicestershire police, Martin GRIME and myself. During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.

Why has Grime changed his mind

I guess that's a no then you don't accept it. I look forward to you raising that Grime used the word anecdotal in the coming years.
The fact is dog alerts that have no physical evidence have been heard in court many times and as I have pointed out many many times Grime I don't believe is a master of evidential law.
There are so many contradictions in the PJ files by Grime, but you only seem to pick out the ones that support your beliefs and drop the others.

[Mr Gray]

I guess that's a no then you don't accept it. I look forward to you raising that Grime used the word anecdotal in the coming years.
The fact is dog alerts that have no physical evidence have been heard in court many times and as I have pointed out many many times Grime I don't believe is a master of evidential law.
There are so many contradictions in the PJ files by Grime, but you only seem to pick out the ones that support your beliefs and drop the others.

Grime uses the word confirms in the quote I've supplied.
Confirms is a definitive word... Supports isn't.
Grime has used the words corroborate and confirm... Not support.

You are cesting a totally fallacious argument to support your bankrupt claim.. Imo

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Grime uses the word confirms in the quote I've supplied.
Confirms is a definitive word... Supports isn't.
Grime has used the words corroborate and confirm... Not support.

You are cesting a totally fallacious argument to support your bankrupt claim.. Imo

Harrison attributes the word confirm to Grime, it's hearsay by Harrison.
In the 2 instances where Grime mentions the words anecdotal witness evidence/statements he uses the words support and corroborate he never associates the word confirm with anecdotal evidence
This thread is about the usage of the words anecdotal evidence stop try to deflect and distract.

By the way what is my bankrupt claim? Is it that corroboration means  “confirm or give support to”.?