The filming of the dogs in Luz August 2007

[The General]

I totally agree.  The problem was Harrison was not recommending a tried and tested strategy... It was his new idea from his out of the box thinking and it backfired.
Harrison did then to to play it down but the damage to the investigation was done.  I put a lot of blame on both of them

But Harrison was, and is, a highly respected expert.

[Mr Gray]

But Harrison was, and is, a highly respected expert.

In what?
The point I have made is that it was his new idea to use the alerts ss intelligence... Grime then bigged up the dogs massively.. Claiming no false positive alerts in 200 cases which some read as no false alerts.. Or never wrong.
I can understand why the PJ thought the McCanns were guilty ...

Grime now describes Eddie as an unreliable cadaver dog.

The whole episode was laughable

[jassi]

But Harrison was, and is, a highly respected expert.

Not compared with our resident armchair experts   

[Brietta]

The point being, the PJ were driven down the 'dog' route as an option proffered by Mark Harrison - no stone unturned and all that. Any police force who subsequently takes up the offer and obtain 'corroborative' or 'incongruent' results derived from the efforts of experts in their field, would react in a similar way - i.e. follow up and divert resources in that direction. It would be remiss not to.
And who recommended Martin Grime?

You truly don't know a great deal about the interminable dog information which pollutes the forum from one end to another by making an appearance somewhere in each and every thread.

It starts with the refusal of the Portuguese to allow the British dogs access at a time when they could possibly have been of use in May 2007 and ends with the archiving of Madeleine's case. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11103.msg563710#msg563710

You are asking questions which everyone with a smattering of knowledge regarding Madeleine's case already knows or can access easily from the millions of sources available on the internet as a reminder.

I think you are going to have to go some to convince me you are not just being a blatant windupmerchant. 

You have started off your posting today with a criticism of the forum - watch out for what you wish for regarding new brooms sweeping clean as in my opinion your present posting style is one which typifies the dumbing down of which you complain.

[G-Unit]

You truly don't know a great deal about the interminable dog information which pollutes the forum from one end to another by making an appearance somewhere in each and every thread.

It starts with the refusal of the Portuguese to allow the British dogs access at a time when they could possibly have been of use in May 2007 and ends with the archiving of Madeleine's case. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11103.msg563710#msg563710

You are asking questions which everyone with a smattering of knowledge regarding Madeleine's case already knows or can access easily from the millions of sources available on the internet as a reminder.

I think you are going to have to go some to convince me you are not just being a blatant windupmerchant. 

You have started off your posting today with a criticism of the forum - watch out for what you wish for regarding new brooms sweeping clean as in my opinion your present posting style is one which typifies the dumbing down of which you complain.

According to The Sun "Senior British cops last night urged officers leading the inquiry to accept help from UK dog teams before it is too late." Strange, considering that some people believe that the PJ suspected Madeleine was dead from day one. Why then would they decine this offer allegedly made in May 2007?

I wonder if the "senior UK police source" got it wrong? S/He said "Their tracking skills are among the finest in the world." That doesn't sound like Grime's dogs, who weren't proficient in tracking.

The Sun got it wrong too; "Other British dog-handling teams did join the initial search for Maddie, and local cops later reported that dogs found a scent, but the trail was lost after 250 yards." Those were Portuguese dog-handling teams.

Due to the unnamed source and the confused claims being made, I don't think this story can be relied on as a source.

[Brietta]

According to The Sun "Senior British cops last night urged officers leading the inquiry to accept help from UK dog teams before it is too late." Strange, considering that some people believe that the PJ suspected Madeleine was dead from day one. Why then would they decine this offer allegedly made in May 2007?

I wonder if the "senior UK police source" got it wrong? S/He said "Their tracking skills are among the finest in the world." That doesn't sound like Grime's dogs, who weren't proficient in tracking.

The Sun got it wrong too; "Other British dog-handling teams did join the initial search for Maddie, and local cops later reported that dogs found a scent, but the trail was lost after 250 yards." Those were Portuguese dog-handling teams.

Due to the unnamed source and the confused claims being made, I don't think this story can be relied on as a source.

Nope ~ definitely EDDIE and KEELA.

We did have this conversation back in 2019 and probably on numerous occasions before and since and it is now so dated that information about it is dropping off the internet mibbee even their own "dogs don't lie" forum - but it can still be found in their own wee corner at Nigel's   https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id157.htm


Any way - Misty has brought us a fresh slant on the movie stars - much more refreshing and interesting than rehashing the fact that Eddie and Keela were turned down by the investigation in May 2007 I think.
Although I think had they been allowed in at the appropriate time we very likely would not have had the Levy videos to salivate over and what a shame that would have been.

[G-Unit]

Nope ~ definitely EDDIE and KEELA.

We did have this conversation back in 2019 and probably on numerous occasions before and since and it is now so dated that information about it is dropping off the internet mibbee even their own "dogs don't lie" forum - but it can still be found in their own wee corner at Nigel's   https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id157.htm


Any way - Misty has brought us a fresh slant on the movie stars - much more refreshing and interesting than rehashing the fact that Eddie and Keela were turned down by the investigation in May 2007 I think.
Although I think had they been allowed in at the appropriate time we very likely would not have had the Levy videos to salivate over and what a shame that would have been.

Oh yes, Eddie and Keela the tracking dogs lol. If the PJ turned them down it was probably because they had their own dogs to do that job.

[The General]

You truly don't know a great deal about the interminable dog information which pollutes the forum from one end to another by making an appearance somewhere in each and every thread.

It starts with the refusal of the Portuguese to allow the British dogs access at a time when they could possibly have been of use in May 2007 and ends with the archiving of Madeleine's case. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11103.msg563710#msg563710

You are asking questions which everyone with a smattering of knowledge regarding Madeleine's case already knows or can access easily from the millions of sources available on the internet as a reminder.

I think you are going to have to go some to convince me you are not just being a blatant windupmerchant. 

You have started off your posting today with a criticism of the forum - watch out for what you wish for regarding new brooms sweeping clean as in my opinion your present posting style is one which typifies the dumbing down of which you complain.

Let's have a go at keeping it on topic just a bit instead of goading and baiting.

[Brietta]

Oh yes, Eddie and Keela the tracking dogs lol. If the PJ turned them down it was probably because they had their own dogs to do that job.

We know that the Portuguese had dogs of their own who didn't get quite the same write up enjoyed by the free lance Eddie and Keela, but who did an excellent job in what were the circumstances back then in May.

Reading the reports of the performance of the dogs and their handlers leaves questions hanging in the air about the conduct of the investigation.

For example ~ a wee girl goes missing and two dogs acting freely and independently of each other take their handlers through almost exactly the same route to exactly the same destination before losing the scent at exactly the same spot.
That location being a car park.

Now that tells me something.  Can you work out what that might be.

Both dogs showed tremendous interest in an empty apartment adjacent to the one the little three year old vanished from ~ yet immediate entry didn't happen!  WOW!
Nor was that particular apartment inspected by Eddie and Keela.  I wonder why not.

[Mr Gray]

Not compared with our resident armchair experts   

It seems experts only exist in the minds of sceptics.

The FSS... Who developed LCN DNA... And familial DNA are in scepticis mind a bunch of idiots..

My inclination is to question everything

[G-Unit]

We know that the Portuguese had dogs of their own who didn't get quite the same write up enjoyed by the free lance Eddie and Keela, but who did an excellent job in what were the circumstances back then in May.

Reading the reports of the performance of the dogs and their handlers leaves questions hanging in the air about the conduct of the investigation.

For example ~ a wee girl goes missing and two dogs acting freely and independently of each other take their handlers through almost exactly the same route to exactly the same destination before losing the scent at exactly the same spot.
That location being a car park.

Now that tells me something.  Can you work out what that might be.

Both dogs showed tremendous interest in an empty apartment adjacent to the one the little three year old vanished from ~ yet immediate entry didn't happen!  WOW!
Nor was that particular apartment inspected by Eddie and Keela.  I wonder why not.

In reply to the bolded question I must admit to being quite disinterested in your deductions. I thought the dogs lost the trail at a lamp post near the car park opposite the entrance to the Tapas complex btw.

[Brietta]

It seems experts only exist in the minds of sceptics.

The FSS... Who developed LCN DNA... And familial DNA are in scepticis mind a bunch of idiots..

My inclination is to question everything

We can only form conclusions to assessments if we have full and accurate information to go on.  I think Misty has raised the question in the OP about whether or not we have been given that.

After all that has been in the public domain regarding the filming of Grime's dogs in Luz new questions are still arising.

I have never believed that Levy's recordings were the evidential ones recorded by the PJ.  I have to admit though that I find it thoroughly mind boggling to try to visualise three camera people jostling around in the same confined space.

What on earth did they think they were doing.

Now the suggestion that personnel were present who never merited mention before adds to the puzzlement which begs the question of why that should be, if true.

I think you are perfectly correct in viewing information through a sceptical eye which with your scientific background is an informed one as to process.  There will always be information going around which we will never be informed about or is on a need to know basis - but isn't it interesting such a trivial claim for the presence of a named individual is only now being raised.
Wonder if it is true.

[Brietta]

In reply to the bolded question I must admit to being quite disinterested in your deductions. I thought the dogs lost the trail at a lamp post near the car park opposite the entrance to the Tapas complex btw.

Thankyou for that claim of disinterest. 

Perhaps as we are a discussion forum the answer lies in, rather than being rude on the public threads, you should adopt the practice of dealing with my posts which disinterest you by doing what you do with my requests.

To that end, I note you have ignored my request of yesterday for a cite supporting a claim made by you despite the extra responsibility you have to the forum regarding making unattributed comment as fact.

[Carana]

Yes. Guilhermino Encarnação, the man in charge of deciding the direction which the investigation took, for which Amaral has been consistently blamed by those who don't understand the command structure of the PJ.

I can't work out if Amaral was present at that meeting.

[Brietta]

I can't work out if Amaral was present at that meeting.

It says it was held in his room but his name isn't mentioned, so who knows?  Strange if he wasn't there though.