Author Topic: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect  (Read 158030 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Then I need to correct you... You need to learn what is meant by a lie. My post was not.. Try Google

'Try Google' is not a correction, it's a meaningless statement. Your refusal to acknowledge your mistake is no surprise, but I won't be arguing with you any more. Just to be clear, you said;

"They have already directed a search to be made at certain wells."

That statement wasn't true, the well searches were not suggested, requested or directed by the Germans.
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Offline Mr Gray

'Try Google' is not a correction, it's a meaningless statement. Your refusal to acknowledge your mistake is no surprise, but I won't be arguing with you any more. Just to be clear, you said;

"They have already directed a search to be made at certain wells."

That statement wasn't true, the well searches were not suggested, requested or directed by the Germans.

The correction was you don't understand the meaning of the word.. Lie..

You referred to my post as a lie.. It wasn't... You are wrong

Offline Vertigo Swirl

'Try Google' is not a correction, it's a meaningless statement. Your refusal to acknowledge your mistake is no surprise, but I won't be arguing with you any more. Just to be clear, you said;

"They have already directed a search to be made at certain wells."

That statement wasn't true, the well searches were not suggested, requested or directed by the Germans.
Were you aware that a statement that isn’t true isn’t necessarily a lie?  I wonder if sceptics generally understand this concept because it seems to me one of the reasons why they are so suspicious about the McCanns and their friends is that they see everything they said which may not have been 100% factually correct as lies.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Ms Para glider


Why would the BKA involve themselves in this hot potato of a case, if they had no real evidence other than what we've been told about so far?

Because they were investigating Brueckner for other offences.


Why put themselves in the spotlight of a media frenzy and risk ridicule and libel suits by publicly proclaiming CB's guilt if they had nothing of any real substance to back it up?

They sent in an undercover to try & get a confession, I imagine that's standard practice when you already have solid evidence & as if Brueckner can really win a libel case


Why would they spend over 4 years investigating this lead if all they have got is hearsay and a phone ping which doesn't even place the phone at the crime scene or during the crime window?


Because they 'think' they have their man, when all they have is hearsay & phone ping...


Why would they spend all this money and waste their limited resources on a case where the victim isn't German, the crime took place in another country and they have no responsibility to investigate it?

How much money & man power are they actually using? I'd like full disclosure including a breakdown of total man hours worked & expenditure please.  The old granny rape victim wasn't German, or in Germany, so why did they investigate that?


Why have they taken this unprecedented approach of publicly accusing someone of murder without charging them, in a country where privacy laws are extremely strict and further...

Because they have only flimsy circumstantial & their best hope is to force a confession, as evidenced by their previous attempt to force a confession.


...Why would that approach have been sanctioned at a higher level if there wasn't already strong indicative evidence to warrant such a bold action?

They were desperate enough to try a prison snitch, that didn't work so they had to try knocking up a gear.



Wrong and naive on so many counts.

1. What other specific "offences" were they investigating CB for at the time? The only thing they have charged him with since HB's testimony in 2017 was the DM rape and they only found that out as a direct result of looking into the MM case.

2. They "allegedly" sent in an undercover op "apparently" to find out where CB may have hidden the body, a key piece of evidence that could close the case for them. Assuming it's true, do you think that police often just deploy undercover ops into prison on a whim to garner evidence that would ultimately be inadmissible in court? Based on "flimsy" evidence? Do you know anything about how the authorisation protocol for these kind of operations work? You obviously don't.

3. CB has somehow acquired a no-expense-spared legal team including FF who has represented some high-level organised crime figures in the past. What is his interest in a degenerate low-life like CB do you think? CB also apparently has a "team" of British lawyers whose job it is to monitor British Press stories about him. How is he paying for all this exactly? For what purpose would they be doing this if not in the hope of launching libel claims in the event that CB is not convicted? Has he not just launched a demation claim agaist Rabe too?

4. So you reckon because they (who exactly are you including as 'they'?) just "think" it was CB, based purely on this "flimsy" evidence, they would spend 4 years (that is a long time, in case you didn't know) just chasing a phantom. For what pupose exactly? Who is signing off on this goose chase? Seriously, you have no concept of how things work in the real world. Try telling your theory to someone who works for a police or intelligence agency and they will laugh their ass off at you.

6. You're deluded if you think a Prosecutor would publicly accuse someone of murder, making statements to the Press like they have, and put their reputations on the line on the sole basis of such flimsy evidence as a phone ping and a hearsay account from another criminal. The Met also have that same evidence. They were the ones who got HB's testimony in the first place and they're not aligning themselves to those accusations against CB. So what does that tell you? Common sense would indicate that HCW isn't bluffing about having other evidence that only they are privy to. Please feel free to provide an example of another case, any case, where police have launched a multi-nation public appeal, publicly accusing an idividual of murder based on no more than such flimsy evidence you claim. I'll wait....

7. The BKA wont divulge how much money they've sunk into this case for obvious reasons but HCW admitted there are between 50 and 100 officers currently working it and it has grown year on year since 2017. Do you think that's a sure sign of a case going nowhere? Let's say an average salary is 40k, and over the 4.5 years it's been going on they have had a conservative average of, say 15 officers full time over that total period. That would still be 2.7 million expenditure to date, excluding any other outgoings and expenses such as travel costs. Not to mention the man hours from SY and PJ who have been assisting their work. Again, do you have any concept of how budgets work in places like this? Do you think they just have rogue prosecutors out there "glory hunting" and getting all this money handed down to them without question from their superiors? What planet are you living on?

8. The prosecution of the "old granny rape victim" as you so sensitively put it, came about as a direct result of the MM investigation. IMO this was a tactical manoeuvre from the BKA to keep CB behind bars since he was due to be released in 2020. They had HB and MS testimony of similar rapes and then enquired with PJ and found DNA evidence linking him to a rape that matched that same MO. A slam dunk of a case that allowed them more time to gather more evidence for the MM charge. That's "why" they investigated that!

9. You really think, that "because" all they had was flimsy evidence, they thought "sod it, we'll just do an appeal saying he's guilty, and we'll lie and say we got loads of other 'secret' evidence too" in the hope he will just confess to it? Even though they then say the evidence they've got isn't quite enough to convict him.... but yeah "you should just confess and save us the bother"  right? Makes sense? Yes, or course you're quite right, that is an absolutely stupendous plan. Tell him you don't yet have enough evidence to prove it in court and then he will of course just confess to it all. Brilliant. You should really join the police force, your insight and tactical nous is beyond genius, it really is.

10. I don't think I really need to say any more but just for completeness and to address your last point, what has the prison op failing got to do with senior officials and judges authorising a person to be publicly accused of murdering the most famous missing child in the world without charging them? You seriously have no concept or understanding of legal matters on this scale.

You are so blinded by bias, you are just inventing things that would never happen in the legal world. I would have more respect for your opinion if you'd claimed CB was the victim of some large scale fit up involving high level officials. Not that I would believe or agree with you then either, but at least I could envisage that all these events over the last 5 years had some plausible motive. But to claim that the BKA have carried out all these actions based solely on a phone ping and a criminal's hearsay is so ridiculous it could only come from a mind who thinks Amaral's theory "makes sense".

Offline Ms Para glider

Were you aware that a statement that isn’t true isn’t necessarily a lie?  I wonder if sceptics generally understand this concept because it seems to me one of the reasons why they are so suspicious about the McCanns and their friends is that they see everything they said which may not have been 100% factually correct as lies.
Spot on. It's like the "shutters/window" incident. At the time, and based on what they observed, it was the most plausible scenario to the McCanns that someone had broken in through the window and that's why they said they thought that's what's probably happened. Then, when it was found that the shutters showed no sign of damage, the anti-McCann mob shout "liars". No evidence that someone didn't enter through the window and shutters though, as Heri has shown how easy it was to do without causing damage. And no acknowledgement that the McCanns later accepted that maybe the window was perhaps opened for another reason than for what they (and probably anyone else in the same position would have) initially assumed. No. To the mob this is "proof" they are liars and that the window was never open in the first place. It's all backwards logic, devoid of objective thinking.

Offline Ms Para glider

All these so called witness's telling this person that , another one this adds up to diddly squat, I'm sure if any of them have any thing of worth to say then they'd have been told to keep their counsel in the midst of a supposed ongoing murder investigation.
Indeed they would and it's likely the witnesses who are most crucial to the case are the ones we've not heard about yet. There are certain people who are off limits to the Press. Certain topics and evidences are too, even though some reporters know all about them, they arent allowed to say. There is a chain of permission/authority in sensitive cases like this. Believe me.

Ironic though that there is acceptance that witnesses have to keep counsel but an overriding belief that the police apparently don't. To some, the police not publicly revealing all their evidence means they clearly don't have any. Great logic. Brought to you by the same brilliant minds who think Madeleine was stored in a freezer for 3 weeks.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Oh what a breath of pure fresh air, logic and sense the last three posts were to read, more please!  8((()*/
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Oh what a breath of pure fresh air, logic and sense the last three posts were to read, more please!  8((()*/

One person's speculations are no better than another person's speculations imo. We just admire the ones we agree with.

I don't know why the Braunsweig prosecutor's office spokesperson pronounced their suspect guilty of murder before they had enough evidence to charge him, or why he pronounced a missing child dead before her parents had been notified. Usually victims aren't named until their next of kin have been informed.

In my opinion the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they will charge their suspect with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. If they don't, some will still believe he was guilty.
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Offline Mr Gray

One person's speculations are no better than another person's speculations imo. We just admire the ones we agree with.

I don't know why the Braunsweig prosecutor's office spokesperson pronounced their suspect guilty of murder before they had enough evidence to charge him, or why he pronounced a missing child dead before her parents had been notified. Usually victims aren't named until their next of kin have been informed.

In my opinion the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they will charge their suspect with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. If they don't, some will still believe he was guilty.

I think you are quite wrong on many counts... I won't believe CB is guilty until I see evidence he is

Offline Vertigo Swirl

One person's speculations are no better than another person's speculations imo. We just admire the ones we agree with.

I don't know why the Braunsweig prosecutor's office spokesperson pronounced their suspect guilty of murder before they had enough evidence to charge him, or why he pronounced a missing child dead before her parents had been notified. Usually victims aren't named until their next of kin have been informed.

In my opinion the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they will charge their suspect with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. If they don't, some will still believe he was guilty.
That is demonstrably false on so many levels.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions have equal value - that's not an opinion, that's a fact.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

One person's speculations are no better than another person's speculations imo. We just admire the ones we agree with.

I don't know why the Braunsweig prosecutor's office spokesperson pronounced their suspect guilty of murder before they had enough evidence to charge him, or why he pronounced a missing child dead before her parents had been notified. Usually victims aren't named until their next of kin have been informed.

In my opinion the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they will charge their suspect with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. If they don't, some will still believe he was guilty.
In much the same way as some still believe the McCanns are guilty, yet as I recall the prosecutor never announced their guilt when they were arguidos, so what essentially is the difference in terms of reputational damage, in your view?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

One person's speculations are no better than another person's speculations imo. We just admire the ones we agree with.

I don't know why the Braunsweig prosecutor's office spokesperson pronounced their suspect guilty of murder before they had enough evidence to charge him, or why he pronounced a missing child dead before her parents had been notified. Usually victims aren't named until their next of kin have been informed.

In my opinion the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they will charge their suspect with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. If they don't, some will still believe he was guilty.

I think some people's speculations are better.

Wolters has never used the word guilty.
I dont think he would have said what he has said unless he has the evidence to support it.
He's explained why he hasnt given the parents the evidence he has and I don't think he would say Maddie was dead unless he was sure.
He's also explained why it's taking longer than expected
I see the Germans as being totally credible and have seen nothing to contradict that

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Speculations from trolls and WUMs who generally write provocative tripe to get a reaction are not worth the bandwidth, even if they momentarily and accidentally lapse into a writing something they truly believe, they have nevertheless forfeited the right to be taken seriously, ever, certainly by me, and by anyone with any sense.  IMO.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

In much the same way as some still believe the McCanns are guilty, yet as I recall the prosecutor never announced their guilt when they were arguidos, so what essentially is the difference in terms of reputational damage, in your view?

It's not about reputation, it's about disregarding the restrictions imposed on the authorities by Article 6 of the ECHR.
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Offline barrier

Speculations from trolls and WUMs who generally write provocative tripe to get a reaction are not worth the bandwidth, even if they momentarily and accidentally lapse into a writing something they truly believe, they have nevertheless forfeited the right to be taken seriously, ever, certainly by me, and by anyone with any sense.  IMO.

Time to heed what you write then.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.