Author Topic: Russia - Ukraine war  (Read 49112 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #165 on: March 15, 2022, 09:09:39 AM »
What a brave woman

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/14/russian-tv-employee-interrupts-news-broadcast-marina-ovsyannikova

I wonder how many years in a Siberian salt mine she’ll get for this?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #166 on: March 15, 2022, 09:26:26 AM »
What a brave woman

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/14/russian-tv-employee-interrupts-news-broadcast-marina-ovsyannikova

I wonder how many years in a Siberian salt mine she’ll get for this?

About 3 to 15 years I read.

Putin banned all the western social media so almost all of Russia are totally in the dark, direct messaging is still permitted because it isn't a news feed distributor.
So short of people in neighbouring countries texting their friends/family telling them the truth the media blackout means the majority believe the propaganda.
I read that a poll taken in jan/Feb had something like 60% + support for Putin.
Many Russians love him, he's improved their lives, but also, like Kim Jong Un, those that say they don't love him are risking their lives.
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #167 on: March 15, 2022, 09:43:52 AM »
If you watch Putin's state address he even mentions how the west are decadent & indulge in unnatural human behaviours.

This was his attack on the pop culture & lgbt trans ideology gender swapping that's engulfed us.

China & Russia both impose strict moral societal values & view us as disgustingly immoral sinners.

I have to say I agree with them both on them points.
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #168 on: March 15, 2022, 09:55:25 AM »

That's what China see's when it looks west, financial bankruptcy, moral decay & the U.S aggressively bosses other countries around, they've seen us flatten the middle east & literally create ISIS.

Our poor relationship is a making of our own doing, & we pushed Russia to their side, needlessly. 
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #169 on: March 15, 2022, 01:40:11 PM »


From the Telegraph


Trump was right on Russia. He could have been its deterrent


Critics obsessed about his crazy rhetoric, but he held a line against Putin and was no isolationist

Donald Trump is like one of those Roman emperors who everyone hated at the time but historians later admit was prophetic. His advice on Ukraine is to paint Chinese flags on F-22s and bomb Russia. That’s classic Trump: mad, bad, ironic and insightful, because while we want to help, we also don’t want to get hurt. So could we let Beijing take the rap?

The case against Trump is that his bizarre outbursts emboldened Moscow, by flattering Putin and diminishing Nato. He was even accused of threatening to withhold military aid from Zelensky to force him to dish any dirt he might have on the Biden family’s business dealings, earning himself a congressional impeachment. So universal was the perception that Trump was in bed with Putin that, on holiday in Moscow, I spotted a t-shirt that read “Donald Trump: Making Russia Great Again”.

Nevertheless, Putin took Crimea in 2014, under Obama, and invaded Ukraine in 2022, under Biden, so it’s reasonable to guess that this invasion wouldn’t have happened under Trump because it didn’t.

Trump says this is because he told Putin he was ready to drop a bomb on Moscow (“he sort of believed me like 5 per cent or 10 per cent – that’s all you need”), which is embarrassing if a lie and terrifying if true, but it does fit with the substantive record of his administration.

Obama resisted sending lethal aid to Ukraine; Trump did so. From 2017-19, the Trump administration carried out 52 policy actions against Russia, ranging from sanctions to military action against Putin’s client Bashar al-Assad. When Assad used chemical weapons under Obama, America did not reply with force. When he tried the same trick under Trump, Trump hit a Syrian airbase with 59 tomahawk missiles. Separately, US commandos engaged directly with Syrian soldiers and Russian mercenaries. The details were classified but the President bragged about it at a fundraiser.

Trump called out the bad; he mocked the pretensions of the good. At the 2018 Nato summit, he demanded that his allies spend more on the military and pointed out that they were buying energy from the very country, Russia, that they expected America to protect them from. The West wasn’t just sanctimonious, it was cheap and greedy, and its decadence was sapping its deterrence.

In that policy area, Trump, despite being labelled an isolationist, stood in a long line of Republicans who asserted the best way to avoid a fight is to signal to your opponent that if they lay one finger on you, you’ll break their nose.

By contrast, does anyone doubt that Biden’s incompetent withdrawal from Afghanistan encouraged Russia to try its luck? Weakness escalates tensions; politicians typically try to extricate themselves from the resulting crises through over-reaction – to bomb North Vietnam or surge troops in Iraq – and now there is talk of imposing a no-fly zone over Ukraine. If we don’t do it, says Zelensky, we are complicit in the murder of citizens. His anger is righteous. But the same Westerners who tell us Putin is insane and desperate can’t then advise us to risk nuclear war with him. When a house is on fire, we try to put it out: we don’t show our solidarity by burning down the whole street.


Another common notion is that the Ukrainians are defending the universal principle of “democracy”, when what they’re really fighting for is their homes. That’s a noble cause and we’re right to back them, but Trump regarded such ideological abstractions as artificial, expensive and best avoided. All nations are in competition, he would argue, regardless of political system, and their goals are shaped by history and geography. Russia wants, and will always want, a buffer zone to the West. Trump had no problem with that, in theory, and it was a mistake to needle Moscow with the threat of Nato extension.

Yet for America to be great, its overtures towards friendly nations, including Ukraine, must be respected, and its sense of right and wrong flattered. Given the obvious blow to Pax Americana that the invasion has inflicted, it’s hard to imagine that a second-term Trump would have tolerated it.

We’ll never know. But we have learnt that the president of the day is the real deterrent, and Biden couldn’t deter a troop of delinquent Girl Scouts.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/07/trump-right-russia-could-have-deterrent/
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #170 on: March 15, 2022, 01:55:12 PM »
he told Putin he was ready to drop a bomb on Moscow (“he sort of believed me like 5 per cent or 10 per cent – that’s all you need”), which is embarrassing if a lie and terrifying if true, but it does fit with the substantive record of his administration.


If true then Trump was a stupid genius, he's probably getting charged with corruption & insurrection & f..k knows what else, could even end up in prison, but he knew what foreign policy needed, the art of the deal.
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #171 on: March 15, 2022, 03:16:58 PM »
The idiots protesting him in the streets throughout his entire tenure because he talked about 'grabbing pussy' & keeping the scrounging Mexicans out.

What they didn't realise was, his brashness & insanity (which you can't have without a touch of genius) was temporarily keeping the world safe.

The situation between the three powers was a mess before he ever came to office, none of his doing.

Even if he didn't actually threaten Putin, I get the impression Putin may have been a little apprehensive about f..king around & finding out anyway, because you just never knew what Trump was going to do next.

Tweeting to Kim Jong Un about having a bigger missile button than him & his one works really well, before actually meeting the guy & shaking hands.

There's a lot of suspicion that Trump was in Putin's pocket, but I'm not sure, maybe he was getting Russian cash from somewhere to be friendly to Russia, but some of his actions suggest otherwise.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 06:23:15 PM by Wonderfulspam »
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #172 on: March 15, 2022, 07:38:15 PM »

He's shifted, this won't make him popular in his own country & is probably too little too late IMO


Ukraine must accept it will never be in Nato, says Volodymyr Zelensky

Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine must recognise it will never join Nato.

The Ukrainian president’s comments sparked speculation that he could be laying the groundwork for a peace deal with Moscow, which wants Kyiv barred from joining the alliance.

"Ukraine is not a member of Nato. We understand that. We have heard for years that the doors were open, but we also heard that we could not join. It's a truth and it must be recognised," Zelensky said during a video conference with military officials.

He said Nato was the "strongest alliance in the world" - but "some of the members of this alliance are hypnotised by Russian aggression".

Russia has long demanded that its neighbour never be allowed to join the alliance, and the Kremlin said last week the war would end "in a moment" if Kyiv agreed, and recognised Russian control of Crimea and separatist-held areas.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/15/ukraine-war-latest-news-russia-putin-zelensky-kyiv-peace-talks/
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #173 on: March 15, 2022, 08:16:22 PM »

Interesting clip from 2010.

Joe Biden (when he was Obama VP) said Russia was a spent power & a dying nation & we don't have to negotiate with them.

Stephen F. Cohen: U.S. Meddles in Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MWtaW2Lq7I
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2022, 09:53:25 PM »

In 2012 Republican Senator Mitt Romney said that Russia was the biggest geopolitical threat to the United States.

Obama's reply was 'the 1980's are calling & that they want their foreign policy back'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bowhUWl6rxQ
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2022, 11:13:36 PM »

Boycott of Russian gas and oil ‘could cause mass poverty in Germany’

Minister warns an immediate stop to supplies could hurt Germany’s population more than Putin.

Germany has warned that an immediate boycott of Russian gas and oil supplies could hurt its own population more than Vladimir Putin, bringing mass unemployment and poverty.

“If we flip a switch immediately, there will be supply shortages, even supply stops in Germany,” the economic and energy minister Robert Habeck told public broadcaster ARD on Sunday, as Europe’s largest economy intensely searches to diversify its energy supplies in the medium term.

The Green party politician predicted “mass unemployment, poverty, people who can’t heat their homes, people who run out of petrol” if his country stopped using Russian oil and gas.

Few other western economies are as dependent on Russian energy as Germany: 55% of the natural gas, 52% of the coal and 34% of mineral oil used in the country comes from Russia, for which it pays hundreds of millions of euros daily, financially supporting the war machine currently devastating Ukraine.

Habeck said his government was working hard to ensure Germany would be in a position to give up Russian coal by the summer, and to phase out Russian oil by the end of the year, but that a short-term ban on Russian gas could leave his country exposed.

“With coal, oil and even gas we are step by step in the process of making ourselves independent”, the former Green party co-leader said. “But we can’t do it in an instant. That’s bitter, and it’s not a nice thing morally to confess to, but we can’t do it yet.”

The US, which imported roughly 8% of its crude oil needs from Russia in 2021, announced a ban on Russian oil with immediate effect last week, while the UK announced it would phase out Russian oil imports by the end of the year.

Since the start of the war in Ukraine, the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has u-turned on a number of foreign policy red lines, consenting to deliver lethal weapons to Ukraine, supporting cutting Russia off from the Swift payment system, and freezing the completed but not yet functional Nord Stream 2 pipeline underneath the Baltic Sea.

But the centre-left leader has said his hands are tied when it comes to banning Russian energy. “Currently there is no other way to secure Europe’s supply with energy to generate heat, for mobility, for power supply and for industry,” Scholz said last week.

Depending on the predictions of various thinktanks and economic institutes, an immediate stop in Russian gas deliveries could shrink Germany’s GDP by as little as 0.1 or as much as 5.2 percentage points.

In an open letter, a number of prominent German scientists, writers and activists have urged the government to take the bold step of cutting itself loose from Russian energy. The Christian Democratic Union party of the former chancellor Angela Merkel has proposed shutting down the Nord Stream 1 pipeline while allowing gas imports via other routes.

Germany’s left-liberal government, meanwhile, is trying to buy time in order to fill up its gas reserves, which were undersupplied by Russian energy companies last year and are largely depleted at the end of the winter.

In its search for alternative sources of energy, short-term solutions are also hard to come by. Simplifying the process whereby new wind and solar farms are to be authorised was one of the promises of the “traffic light” government’s coalition deal, but construction alone will take time.

Building port terminals for liquefied natural gas (LNG), as Germany has now vowed to do in the towns of Brunsbüttel und Wilhelmshaven, usually takes at least five years.

“Can’t do is a highly problematic statement”, energy expert Claudia Kemfert told ARD. “Because the likely challenge we are facing is that we have no choice but to can do”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/14/russian-gas-oil-boycott-mass-poverty-warns-germany




July 2018

Trump warning NATO leaders & Germany in particular about buying all their gas from Russia, whilst expecting the U.S to defend them from Russia.

Trump and Stoltenberg get into tense exchange at NATO summit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwkdmwui3k
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #176 on: March 16, 2022, 04:53:13 PM »
“In the foreseeable future, it was possible that the pro-Nazi regime in Kyiv could have got its hands on weapons of mass destruction, and its target, of course, would have been Russia,” Putin said.

The man’s barking, honestly.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #177 on: March 16, 2022, 05:01:53 PM »
I’ve no doubt the Russian shills will claim this was made up…

https://youtu.be/RNx3eL8327M
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #178 on: March 16, 2022, 05:19:31 PM »
“In the foreseeable future, it was possible that the pro-Nazi regime in Kyiv could have got its hands on weapons of mass destruction, and its target, of course, would have been Russia,” Putin said.

The man’s barking, honestly.

Not if you're Russian & a non military citizen & believe NATO want to destroy or occupy you & are ethnically cleansing Ukraine of Russian citizens.

To them folk (& me) he's a hero.

If he fails, I'm still hoping the other dear leader will perfect his missiles & save us from the tyranny of the Biden regime.  The inflation & gas prices are literally a genocide, worse than any chemical weapons.
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Russia - Ukraine war
« Reply #179 on: March 16, 2022, 06:03:36 PM »
It would be great if we could send our NATO forces in, push the troops back to Moscow then drop a massive bomb on Putin's head.

But unfortunately the guy has codes to a huge nuclear arsenal, so, in reality, we do have to tread carefully.
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