Author Topic: Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!  (Read 443718 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

I agree with that train of thought, John.

I think the language used by New Scotland Yard with regard to the man Jane Tanner saw is ambiguous and IMO the sighting has not really been ruled out. 

Is there any information about the route that would be taken from the evening crèche by someone legitimately going to an apartment in the direction being taken by the man Jane saw?

I am not sure where the crèche is situated.

The Metropolitan Police are investigating the abduction of a 3 year old British girl called Madeleine McCann, from apartment G5A in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz, in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007.
 
A reconstruction of events showing new and significant information has been compiled to seek the assistance of the public in the UK through Crimewatch, Germany through Aktenzeichen XY...ungelost and Holland through Opsporing Verzocht. These are believed to be the most prevalent nationalities in the area at the time other than the local Portuguese community.


Our Priorities:

1.A new understanding of events on the evening Madeleine disappeared has resulted in a renewed focus on a sighting of a man carrying a child towards the ocean/centre of town at about 10pm. There are two e-fit images, 1A & 1B, of the same man. The witnesses have described the man in the e-fit as being white, aged about in his 30s, with short brown hair, of medium build, medium height and clean shaven.

2.Numerous sightings of unidentified men with blonde or fair hair seen near the scene before or on 3rd May 2007. They may or may not be the same person. There are two e-fit images, 2A & 2B. The witness who described the man depicted in e-fit 2A described him as wearing black sunglasses with a thick frame, and was wearing a black leather jacket.

3.There was a fourfold increase in burglaries in the resort peaking in April 2007. Two of the burglaries in April were in Block 5 where Madeleine disappeared from. In both these burglaries entry was via a window. In the first burglary the British occupants had just arrived on 16 April when a man called at the door asking for the "German family". He is described as white, aged in his 20s, fair/blond hair, short in length. They discovered the burglary after they returned from dinner.

4.There were four separate charity collector sightings on the 3rd May in Praia da Luz between 3.30pm and 5.30pm. From one of these sightings an e-fit was compiled of a man who approached a property on Rua do Ramalhete, near the Ocean Club, at approximately 4.00pm. He is described as Portuguese, with medium length wavy hair, aged 25-30. He is said to have spoken good English. E-fit 4A

5. E-fit 4B is of a charity collector who called at apartment G5A on the 25th or 26th April between 1430 and 1500. He is described as a Portuguese looking man, aged between 40-45 years old, with short dark hair, slightly grey at sides. He was carrying a clipboard or pad, a receipt book and an ID card with his photo on it,  but in that photo he had a goatee beard.

http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Madeleine-McCann-Appeal--October-2013/1400020463601/1257246745782


Notice there is no bullet point for Bundleman there, the only mention he gets is  Man now identified by Operation Grange.

Bundleman is dead, let him rest in peace.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

icabodcrane

  • Guest
SY have got rid but it seems the McCanns will never let go of Tannerman  >@@(*&)



hmm

This insistance by the McCanns to keep  promoting  Tannerman   (  or  'Alibiman'  as Cariad aptly named him  )  whilst continuing to downplay  Smithman  ...   just as they have all along ...   makes it look like the McCanns have little faith in Scotland Yard's investigation

What  IS  it with the McCanns and the police   ...   ANY  police  (  including their own hired private ones on occasion )   

Why must they always be in conflict with them   ? 

Offline John

I have just noticed a discrepancy between Jez' statement and his sketch which might be the reason why there is still some dubiety.

Sadie produced Jez' sketch which depicts the men chatting on the corner by the pathway but in his statement he affirms that he crossed the road when he saw Gerry emerge at the gate to apartment and stood chatting about 5 metres up from the same pathway. I suspect the sketch he produced is not that accurate and I would be guided by the written word.

This in turn matches Janes sketch more or less exactly.



« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 08:25:42 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
I have just noticed a discrepancy between Jez' statement and his sketch which might be the reason why there is still some dubiety.

Sadie produced Jez' sketch which depicts the men chatting on the corner by the pathway but in his statement he affirms that he crossed the road when he saw Gerry emerge at the gate to apartment and stood chatting about 5 metres up from the same pathway. I suspect the sketch he produced is not that accurate and I would be guided by the written word.

This in turn matches Janes sketch more or less exactly.

Can we have the 'sketches' side by side to take a look ?

Offline Benice

hmm

This insistance by the McCanns to keep  promoting  Tannerman   (  or  'Alibiman'  as Cariad aptly named him  )  whilst continuing to downplay  Smithman  ...   just as they have all along ...   makes it look like the McCanns have little faith in Scotland Yard's investigation What  IS  it with the McCanns and the police   ...   ANY  police  (  including their own hired private ones on occasion )   

Why must they always be in conflict with them ?

That's quite an assumption to make  Icab -  considering the McCanns have said quite the opposite - i.e. that they are pleased with the investigation  - and IIRC have made no other comments on the case for months. 

Whoever the man is that JT saw - he is part of the investigation.  I see nothing wrong in keeping his picture in the public view - in case someone else realises they also saw him that evening - (maybe close to the creche - and so didn't connect him to the case at the time) who may come forward and be able to confirm or add to what crecheman has told SY.     What harm can it do to leave his piccie on view?

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline John

I agree with that train of thought, John.

I think the language used by New Scotland Yard with regard to the man Jane Tanner saw is ambiguous and IMO the sighting has not really been ruled out. 

Is there any information about the route that would be taken from the evening crèche by someone legitimately going to an apartment in the direction being taken by the man Jane saw?

I am not sure where the crèche is situated.

Brietta.  There is a thread devoted to the route to and from the night crèche which is located immediately above Ocean Club 24-hour Main Reception.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1697.msg51640#msg51640


There is also a thread which looks at Tannerman now renamed Innocentman and why he was walking from west to east and not from the general direction of the night crèche.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3251.0
 

Map showing the McCanns apartment in red and the main Ocean Club Resort Reception/Night Crèche in blue.

Also shown in green is the route the man Jane Tanner saw.
 

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 10:47:56 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline pathfinder73

I have to admit it's an interesting route that he took from the crèche. If he was going to it that way it makes sense - turn right at murat's straight down the path to crèche. SY would have checked everything out but it would be interesting to know his route and where he was heading.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline John

I have to admit it's an interesting route that he took from the crèche. If he was going to it that way it makes sense - turn right at murat's straight down the path to crèche. SY would have checked everything out but it would be interesting to know his route and where he was heading.

Indeed, the language being used is something like he found himself near by the McCanns apartment  8-)(--)

What was he taking, the scenic route?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Brietta.  There is a thread devoted to the route to and from the night crèche which is located immediately above Ocean Club 24-hour Main Reception.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1697.msg51640#msg51640


There is also a thread which looks at Tannerman now renamed Innocentman and why he was walking from west to east and not from the general direction of the night crèche.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3251.0
 


Map showing the McCanns apartment in red, the Tapas Day Reception in yellow and the main Ocean Club Resort Reception in blue.



Thank you, John, that will keep me going for a while.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 10:49:15 PM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Thank you, John, that will keep me going for a while.

I have altered it slightly to show Tannerman's route.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Can we have the 'sketches' side by side to take a look ?

No problem, X marks the spot in Jez's sketch.  Jane clearly indicates Gerry on the footpath with Jez on the road.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 08:42:42 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

I am sorry, despite many attempts by Anna, gilet and John to help me, I cannot post GE pictures so am re-using an old image posted before.  It is about another aspect of the situation we are talking about, but will suffice.

-  The tapas reception had to be passed through and it opened onto the road.  The reception is the brown roof, positioned adjacent to the road, at the bottom of the image.

-  To the east of the Tapas reception is the car park that Jez emerged from, when he saw Gerry walking.  I think I am safe in assuming that Jez came around the curved part at the North of the car park.

The bottom of the A is where the gate from 5A is (right under the top end of the bushes).  Gerry had already come through this gate according to Jez and was walking south
  Obviously 5A is the part of the building immediately by the gate.

-  Tannerman (bundleman) walked west to east along the other road at the top.  This was about 30 metres away from Gerry and Jez.


From statements and the Cutting Edge video, it seems that

Jez was standing immediately on top of where the B is and the yellow line meet .  It seems that he was standing in the road rocking the pushchair, which was downhill of him

-  Gerry was standing on the edge of the pavement adjacent, and to the west / south west of him

1.  General overview

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12752233/img/12752233.jpg



2. Jezes Rogatory Statement

 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

. Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.
When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same.
I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.[/b
] As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.

3. Jezes sketch map

 
http://i.imgur.com/m2kA9kX.gif


Jez:  His position relative to the alleyway and the gate to 5A when he chatted to Gerry

The northern side of the alleyway would be hidden by Gerry who was standing in front of him.  His son was downhill,  to the south of him according to JT in the video, so he would be looking towards Gerry (west / south west) and his son (south).   His mind would register where the street lamp illuminated the Southern wall of the alleyway.

I have tried to be as accurate as I can and have measured from the spot he marks, on his sketch, with a cross and blodge.  He was standing in the road and I make the distance a little under 5 metres from him to where his mind would register the alleyway, or if you prefer about 3 metres to the centre of the alleyway

Jane Tanner in the Cutting Edge Video at about 10.00  says Gerry and Jez were standing in exactly the same place as Jez remembers.  Gerry was completely wrong, but the trauma he suffered could easily have blanked out areas of his memory.  Maybe he started across the road and this sticks in his memory?  Dunno.   However, that happened to me when my son died.... certain areas in my memory were blanked, others as clear as crystal.

http://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY


Now some Google Earth measurements, as accurately as possible, from the most likely spot that Jez stood.

Jez to southern wall, the part thta he was most likely to have noticed) of the alleyway = 5 metres
Jez to middle of alleyway = 3 metres
Jez to 5A gate = 6 metres
Jez to bundleman (Tanner man) = 30 metres


I haven't bothered to match these to the measurements listed in the police report, but if I am remembering correctly, Jez was way out with the distance to Tannerman.  That, along with 5A gate, was out of his line of vision, of course


My apologies for the lateness of this analysis, but I forgot to inject yesterday morning and as a diabetic that along with a Chinese buffet meal luncheon (Very naughty for a diabetic, altho I chose wisely) threw me into a diabetic haze.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Sadie

Why are you taking  the  'Cutting Edge'  TV programme,  with which the McCanns collaborated,  as your point of reference  ? 

It is a questionable source of information because it depicts  nothing more than the  'recollections'  of the McCanns and a couple of their mates

You present it as though it were some kind of independent source of irrefutable evidence

It is not

Offline pathfinder73

 @)(++(* JT is unreliable as any reconstruction would show. No wonder they didn't want to go back. They took the easy way out in Cutting Edge and moved to the other side of the road. A lie detector test is required  8)--))

What is interesting in their timeline is Gerry left 15 minutes after Matt's check. Matt said Gerry left straight away  8-)(--)  Matt's 9.30 check has gone like Madeleine. So why has Gerry got his check at 9.15 if he checked his watch and it was exactly 9.04  >@@(*&)

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

With thanks to John for the links.

I had no idea that Innocentman had presented himself to the police in 2007.       
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3251.msg123092#msg123092

Now that I can see exactly where the main reception area is located in relation to where Jane tanner saw the man carrying a child I do not understand why he was walking in the direction indicated. 

If he made a detour for any reason, for example getting really lost, I’m sure NSY have checked that out already.

Since that information doesn’t appear to be in the public domain and until it is, I believe that Jane Tanner saw Madeleine being abducted.
I am not alone in finding the route being taken a bit strange.

 ~ My main point however is much more significant.  It says in the quote above that this guy had picked up his own two-year-old daughter from a crèche close to where Madeleine vanished.  But remember, the night crèche is not close to the Ocean Club Garden, the block from where Madeleine disappeared.  The night crèche  (see plan) is actually some distance away, 275 yds or 250 metres to be precise and not what I would consider close in an urban environment.  Close for me would be the day crèche which was only 70 metres away.
If as he claims, that he picked his daughter up at around the time of the sighting ie 9.15pm, why on earth was he walking from west to east ie towards the night crèche and not from south to north as he would have been had he in fact been coming from the night crèche?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3251.msg123121#msg123121
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....