Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!

[Alfred R Jones]

Someone picking up Madeleine from her bed would hold her with her head to the right & feet to the left.
Tanner described  it as being the other way round - ie head to the left, therefore it couldn't have been a simple case of picking her up and walking out. She would have to be turned round after being lifted from the bed.

Passed from one person to another?

[Alice Purjorick]

Passed from one person to another?

You remain light on detail. All you have done is introduce another poorly defined variable without addressing the original queries.
Define the problem and the constraints accurately and I will answer.

[jassi]

Passed from one person to another?

There's no proof of one abductor, let alone two.

[Alfred R Jones]

How do I know? you are light on significant detail there; where is the bed in relation to relevant features, how high is the bed, in what attitude is the child in bed, is the child on top of the covers or under them , how far will I be carrying the child, how heavy is the child, what do I have to negotiate after picking the child up in order to get out, can I fully open the door to the room, do I need a free hand at any point to open other doors or lock them.
Your call.

where is the bed in relation to relevant features - what features are relevant?

how high is the bed - normal height.

in what attitude is the child in bed - asleep on its back

 is the child on top of the covers or under them  - under them

how far will I be carrying the child - not relevant, I asked how would you carry a child you had just picked up


how heavy is the child - not very, the clue is in the word "small"

 what do I have to negotiate after picking the child up in order to get out - cross a room to a window, or out one door and another, both left open for the purpose of easy getaway?

can I fully open the door to the room - possible to do whilst maintaining the child in a lateral position, especially if door is already ajar.

do I need a free hand at any point to open other doors or lock them - no need to lock a door but easy enough to use a hand to open a door left ajar. Use knee to push door closed.

Your call.

[Alfred R Jones]

There's no proof of one abductor, let alone two.

I thought we were hypothesising - there's no proof the McCanns dunnit either but that doesn't stop some people!

[Alice Purjorick]

where is the bed in relation to relevant features - what features are relevant?

how high is the bed - normal height.

in what attitude is the child in bed - asleep on its back

 is the child on top of the covers or under them  - under them

how far will I be carrying the child - not relevant, I asked how would you carry a child you had just picked up


how heavy is the child - not very, the clue is in the word "small"

 what do I have to negotiate after picking the child up in order to get out - cross a room to a window, or out one door and another, both left open for the purpose of easy getaway?

can I fully open the door to the room - possible to do whilst maintaining the child in a lateral position, especially if door is already ajar.

do I need a free hand at any point to open other doors or lock them - no need to lock a door but easy enough to use a hand to open a door left ajar. Use knee to push door closed.

Your call.

You have still failed to define the problem accurately either because you are unable to or unwilling to. As you posed the question to me I think it is up to me to decide what is and what is not relevant when I frame an answer, unless of course you are trying to maneuver this to arrive at the answer you want. You wouldn't be that sneaky now would you?
So unless you can define the problem accurately I cannot answer except to say there is probably no single right answer.

[Alfred R Jones]

You have still failed to define the problem accurately either because you are unable to or unwilling to. As you posed the question to me I think it is up to me to decide what is and what is not relevant when I frame an answer, unless of course you are trying to maneuver this to arrive at the answer you want. You wouldn't be that sneaky now would you?
So unless you can define the problem accurately I cannot answer except to say there is probably no single right answer.

WTF?!  I answered every single one of your questions and I have "failed to define the problem accurately"?!  What do you mean Alice?  Obviously you're not comfortable with answering so let me ask you this:  is it beyond the realms of possibility that a man may carry a small, sleeping child that he has just lifted out of its bed, in the way described by JT? No need for more waffle, just a straight answer would be nice.

[Eleanor]

I'm still going with Tannerman at 9.15, being one of two abductors.  One in the appartment picking up Madeleine and passing her to the second abductor.  This accounts for the position of the child changing when seen by Jane Tanner.

[Alice Purjorick]

WTF?!  I answered every single one of your questions and I have "failed to define the problem accurately"?!  What do you mean Alice?  Obviously you're not comfortable with answering so let me ask you this:  is it beyond the realms of possibility that a man may carry a small, sleeping child that he has just lifted out of its bed, in the way described by JT? No need for more waffle, just a straight answer would be nice.

Oh dear Alf are you getting upset.
You are still failing to define the problem properly. How heavy is the child just that will do for starters I am sure you can give it a stab?
If however you wish to start from a preconceived answer and frame a question to give that answer at least have the bottle to admit that's what you are doing.

[Alfred R Jones]

Oh dear Alf are you getting upset.
You are still failing to define the problem properly. How heavy is the child just that will do for starters I am sure you can give it a stab?
If however you wish to start from a preconceived answer and frame a question to give that answer at least have the bottle to admit that's what you are doing.

  You're too funny Alice.  I can see what you're doing.  Putting up all sorts of barriers to prevent you from answering a very simple question.  Never mind, I know it's awkward for you to come clean on this one...

[Alfred R Jones]

A question for no one in particular then:

is it beyond the realms of possibility that a man may carry a small, sleeping child that he has just lifted out of its bed, in the way described by JT?

[Benice]

I've no idea what Tanner's motive might have been but that does not rule out that she may have had one. Further if Tanner had already been caught out in a lie how willing would the police be to believe her claim that Gerry put her up to it ? Surely they would think she was simply trying to shift the blame ? And as to the 'road' contradiction, the police may have thought it was simply a minor discrepancy that sometimes happens in police statements.

LOL Faith  - you may be able to dismiss the little matter of WHY Jane Tanner would agree to pervert the course of justice -  by committing perjury, to help GM - as if it were a mere detail  - but unless you can come up with a credible reason to explain why she would agree to expose herself and her own family/children to such danger  - the theory falls at the first fence IMO.

If someone suddenly told me that their child had just died and they had got rid of the body - I can assure you that I definitely would NOT be wracking my brains thinking of ways I could help them to get away with it.    And neither would any other normal, sane person IMO.

I don't see how you can get past that unsurmountable problem, unless you can prove JT is insane.

   

[pathfinder73]

Passed from one person to another?

And maybe there was a third above the wall in the car park. Pass the parcel and who forgot the car 

[Alfred R Jones]

And maybe there was a third above the wall in the car park. Pass the parcel and who forgot the car 

Thanks for your input, always very illuminating.

[Alice Purjorick]

  You're too funny Alice.  I can see what you're doing.  Putting up all sorts of barriers to prevent you from answering a very simple question.  Never mind, I know it's awkward for you to come clean on this one...

Given the child weighs no more than about 16 kg and is flat on its back as you state, then:stand at the side of the bed facing the child pull back the covers to clear the child; hands either side of the chest under the arms lift to vertical position and pass out of window in near enough vertical position to accomplice outside who receives child in vertical position.  Windows are normally about 900 to 1100 high. Or if I have no accomplice and am negotiating a door I can hold the child against my body with one hand long enough to operate door handles slide locks etc.
That is the easiest way. Of course the child may wake but that is a risk however you lift.