Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!

[faithlilly]

[/b]

AFAIK JT didn't know any of the men used in the ID parade - so how could she decide which one of them was in the frame?   

Tanner was put in a van and Murat walked across the street in front of her.

[DCI]

Tanner was put in a van and Murat walked across the street in front of her.

She didn't recognise him though, did she? Very convenient for a car to move just at the right time


I realise they were probably calling Robert MURAT to try and get him to walk across, across the top of the road so that, you know, I could see.  But it was a bit odd because there was a car, where we were parked there was a car that moved just at that point that he appeared and then two other people walked by, so I didn’t really, but I didn’t even recognise it as the person I’d been talking to five minutes before, well, you know, half an hour before, so.  Erm, and then, erm, then went, I think because it has gone a bit wrong because this car had been there and then tried to set it up elsewhere, but again I couldn’t really see,

[Carana]

IMO, Jane was saying, she thought it was the right thing to do, letting Bob Small know

I agree, DCI. And I agree with Benice that punctuation was missing in this part of the transcript. No offence to whoever was responsible for it, as it is difficult to transcribe accurately when people interrupt each other.

Even though a verbatim transcription is better than a summary, it would have been clearer if there had been an opportunity to view the actual video as facial expressions, hesitations, etc., would have made that point in the discussion clearer.

The police and other authorities have no doubt viewed the interviews, and the PT authorities determined that they added nothing new.

As an aside, slightly OT, but relevant as an example I think, even UK transcripts aren't always reliable. I was reading an account
of a police interview with Litvinenko in which he'd said that a suspect was sporting a very expensive Swiss watch.

Litvinenko had a sharp eye for detail: Lugovoi was wearing a flashy Swiss gold watch, worth $50,000 (£33,000) 


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/30/alexander-litvinenko-six-things-russia-inquiry

The transcript of that is online. Litvinenko either said, or the person who was trying to type up the transcript heard, that the brand was "Budget" or sounded like it. (p.3 http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1422623294923/Alexander-Litvinenko-Inquir.pdf )

Just how likely is it that a luxury Swiss watch would bear the global brand of "Budget"? *roll eyes*. I doubt that that was Litvinenko actually said, but it seems to be the best guess of what the transcriber heard. Then it's up to the police / other authorities to check.

I went to Google this, albeit briefly. Based on the description, and in view of his Russian accent and poor state of health, the most likely would seem to be Piaget (possibly Breguet, but their watches don't seem to correspond to the description).

[sadie]

75 feet Sadie? Just like being in your back garden. 

I am aware that very considerable time and money has been expended in finding out who I am and where I live.  Both in the Uk
... and in PT, where I had some very strange experiences.  In PT, people who I didn't know, foreigners, suddenly "accidentally" bumping into me ... complete strangers,  who knew all about me and who I was, in fine detail..


Checking me out.


And why did they want to check who I was?   


I will leave that for you to work out, or maybe you KNOW already?

[sadie]

Can't you read?

 I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”. But I just thought it was”.

Amaral isn't lying! He has no reason to lie like others.

Amaral has every reason to lie and we all know that.

He is a Court confirmed liar (twice), yet YOU still cling to his every word.

Get real PFinder

You are putting out far too much disinformation, IMO

[sadie]

In view of what she says elsewhere and particularly at the end of her statement re RM  - that part (in blue) doesn't make sense - unless it is an unfinished sentence imo.

There are several examples of people stopping in the middle of a sentence in the rogs. but instead of the typist indicating that by a series of .......................... - he/she merely puts a full stop - which is misleading to the reader.

JT's comments about Murat are made with hindsight.   At the time she attended the ID parade she had no idea that it involved him.


A couple of examples of JT ending in the middle of the sentence:'

Jayne Tanner

 I can’t remember what we did specifically in the time in between. I think we just had something to eat and just I think we were in Dave and Fi’s apartment, but.

JT
 I mean, obviously I don’t  know, I don’t know Jez, I hadn’t actually, I hadn’t had any contact with Jez through the week, I didn’t, you know, he wasn’t somebody we chatted to, so, you know, in terms of him recognising me or knowing me, he didn’t know me, so”.

JT
Reply    “I know, the problem is, it’s just getting the Press and the”.

End quotesIMO for clarity - those full stops should be a line of full stops.
IE ''I just thought it was.''  should have been typed as  ''I just thought it was...................''[/b]

 
Well spotted Benice 

[sadie]

OK, let's have it in the right context and not bits taken from different statements.

!"when they took me round for the surveillance to look at, and I’m guessing now it’s MURAT they wanted me to look at and, you know, all the other bits and bobs, I really don’t know, but I think I’d prefer just to stick with what I said in my original statement.

""I mean, I think, so the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck." Not Smithman!"

Erm, so I went off in the back of this like refrigerated, well it was pretending to be a refrigerated, erm, van and took it round to the point on the road and obviously, in hindsight now, I realise they were probably calling Robert MURAT to try and get him to walk across, across the top of the road so that, you know, I could see.  But it was a bit odd because there was a car, where we were parked there was a car that moved just at that point that he appeared and then two other people walked by, so I didn’t really, but I didn’t even recognise it as the person I’d been talking to five minutes before, well, you know, half an hour before, so.  Erm, and then, erm, then went, I think because it has gone a bit wrong because this car had been there and then tried to set it up elsewhere, but again I couldn’t really see, I couldn’t really see that well and, you know, it didn’t look, it didn’t jog, jog any memories.

Replies

"4078    “Now you are left with that mental image in your head about the man carrying the child”

Reply    “Umm”.

4078    “And you said, you described his hair quite well.  Having seen MURAT then and obviously in the papers since, could you link the two of those?”
Reply    “I don’t think so.  I mean, I don’t, phew, I don’t, I don’t think it, no, there doesn’t, there’s no, but then the person I see in the paper doesn’t really look like my recollection of the person I met on the way to meet Bob SMALL.  It’s really annoying because normally I would have probably taken more notice but I was so worried about what I was going to do, because I didn’t know at this point at all, I didn’t really take any notice, but I think it was too short and I remember it being, being long into the neck and not so.  Again, I don’t really, when I saw Robert MURAT outside his house he looked quite little to me, but then when you see him on the telly he seems quite bit, so I can’t, again, I don’t think the build, the build was right, I don’t”.
4078    “So you don’t feel, in your heart of hearts”.
Reply    “No”.

4078    “You don’t feel it was the same person?”
Reply    “No, I don’t, no”.
................................................................................................


Where Jane says "I thought it was" is mentioned re those seeing Murat on the night.

4078    “Can’t find the specific part in there but I think, obviously it’s covered in the first one anyway, so it’s not particularly relevant to any (inaudible) time, going back to the second one there.  Before we move on to then Gerry and Kate’s questions that they want to ask, is there anything else that you want to say in relation to everything we’ve discussed so far”? Reply    “Erm I think the only part which, I mean it’s more relevant to everybody else than to me, it’s probably some of the Robert MURAT bits, in terms of erm Rachel, Fi and Russ and into, erm it was sort of how that came about and how they came to give their statements on that, I don’t know whether it’s a good time to talk about that”?


4078    “Yes, yes go on”.
Reply    “Erm well I think it’s when I’d done the, well I did the surveillance and then the next day after that, I think it came on Sky News about whether they were searching, what the MURAT’s house, so that’s Rachel sort of came running down at that point and sort of said, have you seen this blah, blah and at this point, nobody knew that I’d done the surveillance cos the Portuguese Police were very adamant that I shouldn’t tell anybody and I didn’t tell anybody for days actually, I didn’t even tell them then that it was actually, that I’d done it, I mean it was a couple of days afterwards.  So Rachel came down and sort of said, oh I saw him blah, blah, blah and then I think Russell, I can’t remember who else but then somebody else said oh they, they saw him and etc., so at that point it was, I rang Bob SMALL cos I’d got, I’d got his number from the day before for them and you know, they sort of, you know to say, oh is this, is this relevant and also I wanted to tell him that I’d seen him on the way to the doing the surveillance as well yeah just for that, so I think it’s just to make the point really that I think at that point, they didn’t know that Robert MURAT said he wasn’t there on the night”.


4078    “Right”.
 Reply    “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
4078    “No”.
 Reply    “But I just thought it was”.
4078    “Because there had been some dispute as to whether they’ve actually seen him when they’ve said they’ve seen him”.
 Reply    “Yeah I think, I just want to make it clear that from my own point of view, they gave that information as soon as it came onto Sky and asked and you know they were sort of like, oh let’s ring Bob SMALL to see if it’s relevant at this point and at that point, none of us knew that he wasn’t there on you know, that he didn’t say that he was there on the night and”.
4078    “Yes”.
 Reply    “And I, I mean I didn’t myself see him on the night at all but somebody did say to me, who translated for you, was it the lady or the man and it, it was the lady, I said, Sylvie and I hadn’t seen a man but again I don’t know whether that has any relevance that there was somebody else there translating, you know during the night so”.
4078    “Okay, that’s certainly a point worth bringing up when we interview the other people that have seen him there on the night”.
 Reply    “Yeah exactly, I’m not trying to, cos I feel you know, if he’s not involved, the poor chap’s had as much crap as us really, I feel very, you know, he’s not involved but I do think it’s important that”.

IMO, Jane was saying, she thought it was the right thing to do, letting Bob Small know

Brilliant analyses DCI

Some really well researched posts today.  Well done.



It seems then that YOU Pfinder have taken responses out of context?

Am I right?

Cos if you have - you are a cheat.   Sorry but that is fact if you have messed around with the statements, twisting them to make something that wasn't meant.

[pathfinder73]

She didn't recognise him though, did she? Very convenient for a car to move just at the right time


I realise they were probably calling Robert MURAT to try and get him to walk across, across the top of the road so that, you know, I could see.  But it was a bit odd because there was a car, where we were parked there was a car that moved just at that point that he appeared and then two other people walked by, so I didn’t really, but I didn’t even recognise it as the person I’d been talking to five minutes before, well, you know, half an hour before, so.  Erm, and then, erm, then went, I think because it has gone a bit wrong because this car had been there and then tried to set it up elsewhere, but again I couldn’t really see,

She didn't know it was Murat at the time. Different men walked across the road and Tanner said that was the man and it turned out to be Murat. She found out later it was him. That explains her comment: "I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw but I just thought it was."

[Carana]

She didn't know it was Murat at the time. Different men walked across the road and Tanner said that was the man and it turned out to be Murat. She found out later it was him.

She didn't though. You seem to be stating your opinion as fact.

[pathfinder73]

She didn't though. You seem to be stating your opinion as fact.

It is fact. Anyone there on the night involved in it would confirm that it happened. Murat raid was kept secret at the time.

Sunday 13 May
Before the search, we want to assure ourselves that Jane Tanner recognises him as the individual she saw on the night of the disappearance. She is sitting inside an unmarked car, whose tinted windows allow her to see out without being spotted. The vehicle is parked at the exact spot where she was on the night of May 3rd. Robert Murat, anonymous amongst plain clothes police officers, goes up the road in the same way as the alleged abductor. Jane Tanner is adamant: it certainly is Robert Murat that she saw that night. She definitely recognises his way of walking. But does he resemble the description she painted previously?
The investigator, with whom Murat is on friendly terms, is with him in a bar until 2 o’clock in the morning. We are not about to relax surveillance. As soon as he gets home, police officers are stationed around his house in order to monitor all entrances. The crisis unit is buzzing; the teams are preparing for the search. It will be carried out at 7am – the legally designated time -, when the journalists are not yet on the streets. The operation is kept secret. (TOTL)

[jassi]

She didn't know it was Murat at the time. Different men walked across the road and Tanner said that was the man and it turned out to be Murat. She found out later it was him. That explains her comment: "I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw but I just thought it was."

Sound a bit of an indecisive lady - reminds me of Mavis out of 'Open all Hours'

[misty]

It is fact. Anyone there on the night involved in it would confirm that it happened. Murat raid was kept secret at the time.

Sunday 13 May
Before the search, we want to assure ourselves that Jane Tanner recognises him as the individual she saw on the night of the disappearance. She is sitting inside an unmarked car, whose tinted windows allow her to see out without being spotted. The vehicle is parked at the exact spot where she was on the night of May 3rd. Robert Murat, anonymous amongst plain clothes police officers, goes up the road in the same way as the alleged abductor. Jane Tanner is adamant: it certainly is Robert Murat that she saw that night. She definitely recognises his way of walking. But does he resemble the description she painted previously?
The investigator, with whom Murat is on friendly terms, is with him in a bar until 2 o’clock in the morning. We are not about to relax surveillance. As soon as he gets home, police officers are stationed around his house in order to monitor all entrances. The crisis unit is buzzing; the teams are preparing for the search. It will be carried out at 7am – the legally designated time -, when the journalists are not yet on the streets. The operation is kept secret. (TOTL)

Yet once again, his dogs didn't bark, despite all those officers surrounding the perimeter of Casa Liliana. How ext.........!
It'll be even more extraordinary if you can find the statement in the files confirming JT's positive ID of Murat.

[pathfinder73]

Sound a bit of an indecisive lady - reminds me of Mavis out of 'Open all Hours'

lol correct. Jane is saying in 2008 that she doesn't think it was Murat that she saw on the night but on Sunday 13 May 2007 she said that was the man.

[Eleanor]

It is fact. Anyone there on the night involved in it would confirm that it happened. Murat raid was kept secret at the time.

Sunday 13 May
Before the search, we want to assure ourselves that Jane Tanner recognises him as the individual she saw on the night of the disappearance. She is sitting inside an unmarked car, whose tinted windows allow her to see out without being spotted. The vehicle is parked at the exact spot where she was on the night of May 3rd. Robert Murat, anonymous amongst plain clothes police officers, goes up the road in the same way as the alleged abductor. Jane Tanner is adamant: it certainly is Robert Murat that she saw that night. She definitely recognises his way of walking. But does he resemble the description she painted previously?
The investigator, with whom Murat is on friendly terms, is with him in a bar until 2 o’clock in the morning. We are not about to relax surveillance. As soon as he gets home, police officers are stationed around his house in order to monitor all entrances. The crisis unit is buzzing; the teams are preparing for the search. It will be carried out at 7am – the legally designated time -, when the journalists are not yet on the streets. The operation is kept secret. (TOTL)

Ah, Amaral again, who wasn't even there.  So why didn't he get a statement from Jane Tanner?  Amaral's interpretation is dynamite.

[sadie]

Ah, Amaral again, who wasn't even there.  So why didn't he get a statement from Jane Tanner?  Amaral's interpretation is dynamite.

The one who is a convicted liar, twice over in the PT Courts. 

Yep it's him again and as you say


He wasn't even there !  And instead of Chinese whispers, didn't he get a statement from Jane Tanner?




If she had verbally affirmed that it was Murat that she had seen as Tannerman, he would certianly have wanted a written statement.



But NO statement, and that PROVES that she did NOT affirm that Murat was Tannerman  .... IMO ...... and it is staring you in the eyes Pfinder, Jassi and Faith.