Author Topic: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?  (Read 71221 times)

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debunker

  • Guest
Specific incidents please.

I can think of three.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 02:00:06 PM »
What are the three you are refering to  ?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 02:06:04 PM »
I am testing out what other people think.

Offline starryian

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2013, 02:09:26 PM »
I dont want to be pedantic DB but  we spell the word 'odor' with a 'u' 'Odour' Much the same applies to 'colour, labour, harbour. Just out of curiousity and I hope you dont mind, are you American by any chance?  It is just that Americans spell it the way you did.  Moreover the use of the word 'cadaver dog' is also American.
 8((()*/
Starryian..

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2013, 02:14:21 PM »
I am testing out what other people think.

*please Sir*

May I be excused from this lesson ?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2013, 02:15:21 PM »
Off topic, but it is known that I was educated at secondary and tertiary level in both the USA and the UK.

I write either US or UK usage (with a hint of Scots) in spelling and grammar  as necessary.

Most of my computers have American English as standard as I more usually write for American Journals.

I don't worry too much about it.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 02:16:41 PM »
I am testing out what other people think.

*please Sir*

May I be excused from this lesson ?

Certainly. Feel free to join the educationally challenged stream. You will find it at one of the [ censored word ] forums.

Why is it that some people are resistant to fact checking?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2013, 02:24:15 PM »
I am testing out what other people think.

*please Sir*

May I be excused from this lesson ?

Certainly. Feel free to join the educationally challenged stream. You will find it at one of the [ censored word ] forums.

Why is it that some people are resistant to fact checking?

Present the facts as you see them,  and respectfully allow others to challenge them

That is how forums work  ...  this is a forum, not a classroom

debunker

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 02:47:35 PM »
I am testing out what other people think.

*please Sir*

May I be excused from this lesson ?

Certainly. Feel free to join the educationally challenged stream. You will find it at one of the [ censored word ] forums.

Why is it that some people are resistant to fact checking?

Present the facts as you see them,  and respectfully allow others to challenge them

That is how forums work  ...  this is a forum, not a classroom

That is what happens when dullards try to exert authority- they make up rules.

Cite please for your suggestions about how we must debate.

Offline muratfan

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 03:08:55 PM »
Do you mean where the dogs have found the scent, without being taken to the exact spot, or where they have had to be shown where to look and sniff?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 03:15:26 PM »
Do you mean where the dogs have found the scent, without being taken to the exact spot, or where they have had to be shown where to look and sniff?

Any indication set that might rationally be said (outside simple errors of identifiv=cation) to be indicative of cadaver odor.

Offline Carana

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 03:51:26 PM »
Indicative of cadaver odour or of the possibility? We don't know if he was desensitised or not to gneral decomp odour. We do know that he reacts to the scent of blood from a living person, but also to sex-related ones.

Offline Benice

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 04:08:21 PM »
Hello to everyone.

In theory - I think any alert by Eddie alone could be suggestive of cadaver odour.

However, without evidence being found which can be forensically tested then .....

No-one can say whether the alert was to a recent or ancient deposit - so it cannot be 'dated'. 
 
No-one can say whether the alert was from odour emanating from above or below the ground - or even if it had drifted there from another source.

No-one can say whether it was an odour left by direct contact with a cadaver or an odour innocently transferred to that same place from elsewhere by any number of people or objects.

No-one can say whether the original source was decomposed pigmeat or human remains as the dogs cannot differentiate between the two.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted in error or whether it was a genuine alert.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted as a result of unconscious cueing - or not.

I have always presumed that it is because of these numerous variables that physical evidence capable of being forensically tested is absolutely essential  - in order for the 'alerts' to be regarded as evidence.   If nothing is found to corroberrate the alerts - then any of the above 'possibilities' could be the reason for an alert.



 












The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2013, 04:21:39 PM »
Hello to everyone.

In theory - I think any alert by Eddie alone could be suggestive of cadaver odour.

However, without evidence being found which can be forensically tested then .....

No-one can say whether the alert was to a recent or ancient deposit - so it cannot be 'dated'. 
 
No-one can say whether the alert was from odour emanating from above or below the ground - or even if it had drifted there from another source.

No-one can say whether it was an odour left by direct contact with a cadaver or an odour innocently transferred to that same place from elsewhere by any number of people or objects.

No-one can say whether the original source was decomposed pigmeat or human remains as the dogs cannot differentiate between the two.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted in error or whether it was a genuine alert.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted as a result of unconscious cueing - or not.

I have always presumed that it is because of these numerous variables that physical evidence capable of being forensically tested is absolutely essential  - in order for the 'alerts' to be regarded as evidence.   If nothing is found to corroberrate the alerts - then any of the above 'possibilities' could be the reason for an alert.



 

Hmmmm!

In Praia da Luz, we know that both dogs erred.

We know that Eddie either failed to alert to a scent on cuddle-cat, or 'alerted' when there was nothing to alert to

We know that Keela alerted to the boot of the Renault but Eddie didn't.  Since material was recovered from the boot, that is most likely to be Eddie's error.

We know that Keela alerted to curtain, sent to the FSS, where no trace of blood could be found.

We know that Eddie alerted in an apartment where a man who cut himself shaving paced the apartment for 45 minutes trying to stem the flow of blood.

Why should we infer anything incriminating, or even indicative, from any of these alerts?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 04:27:24 PM »
Hello to everyone.

In theory - I think any alert by Eddie alone could be suggestive of cadaver odour.

However, without evidence being found which can be forensically tested then .....

No-one can say whether the alert was to a recent or ancient deposit - so it cannot be 'dated'. 
 
No-one can say whether the alert was from odour emanating from above or below the ground - or even if it had drifted there from another source.

No-one can say whether it was an odour left by direct contact with a cadaver or an odour innocently transferred to that same place from elsewhere by any number of people or objects.

No-one can say whether the original source was decomposed pigmeat or human remains as the dogs cannot differentiate between the two.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted in error or whether it was a genuine alert.

No-one can say for sure that the dog had alerted as a result of unconscious cueing - or not.

I have always presumed that it is because of these numerous variables that physical evidence capable of being forensically tested is absolutely essential  - in order for the 'alerts' to be regarded as evidence.   If nothing is found to corroberrate the alerts - then any of the above 'possibilities' could be the reason for an alert.



 







We know that Eddie alerted in an apartment where a man who cut himself shaving paced the apartment for 45 minutes trying to stem the flow of blood.



I didn't know that

...  which apartment was it ?