How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?

[icabodcrane]

...  and whatever Eddie, the cadaver dog alerted to in the McCann's wardrobe,  it wasn't Paul Gordon's blood  ...  if it had been,  Keela, the blood dog would have alerted too  (  she didn't )

Was Keela shown the wardrobe?

She wasn't just shown it,  she thoroughly explored it. First the base,  then she jumped up onto the first shelf,  and was finally lifted onto the second shelf 

There was no blood in that wardrobe  ...  not Paul Gordon's ...  or anyone else's

Whatever Eddie alerted to there,  it was not blood

[debunker]

...  and whatever Eddie, the cadaver dog alerted to in the McCann's wardrobe,  it wasn't Paul Gordon's blood  ...  if it had been,  Keela, the blood dog would have alerted too  (  she didn't )

Was Keela shown the wardrobe?

She wasn't just shown it,  she thoroughly explored it. First the base,  then she jumped up onto the first shelf,  and was finally lifted onto the second shelf 

There was no blood in that wardrobe  ...  not Paul Gordon's ...  or anyone else's

Whatever Eddie alerted to there,  it was not blood

Might have been cadaver odor, or Keela had a one in ten chance of a false negative or eddie had a chance of one in ten of a false positive. 8 in 10 chance then that it might have been cadaver odor!

[Redblossom]

There are so many dog threads that I get lost.


Something that I find interesting.

Listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA

From around 3:40 ish.

What do you hear him say about the intention of putting Eddie in the car?

He had no intention of putting Eddie in the car, as the scent was coming out of the door seal. What do you find interesting about it?

[Carana]

There are so many dog threads that I get lost.


Something that I find interesting.

Listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA

From around 3:40 ish.

What do you hear him say about the intention of putting Eddie in the car?

He had no intention of putting Eddie in the car, as the scent was coming out of the door seal. What do you find interesting about it?

Whoever translated the transcription into Portuguese for the PJ made a mistake.

That mistake ended up in the famous interim report that people keep quoting:

7. Vehicle used by the McCann family
7.1. Cadaver dog:
* Marked the key of the car
* Marked the interior of the booth

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm


The original PT is here:




When re translated into English...


We examined the cars with the dog and the only reaction we got was in relation to the car in the extreme corner. I will indicate that it was the Renault. What we have is a reaction to this door here, where (the dog) lifts its head in the air and sniffs for the objects which it has been trained to detect. And when we limit our movements, the dog chooses this car, this door. It is important to know that the dog chooses the odour that comes from the lower part of the door. Based on this information, I will try to place the dog inside the car.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It doesn't seem that TdeA at least had noticed that it wasn't Eddie in the boot, but Keela.

[Angelo222]

The value of the dogs in the McCann case is very questionable.   Even if we were 100% certain that Eddie alerted to cadaverine, without a confirmed DNA match you cannot say it came from Madeleine McCann.  The dog only really had one unquestionable use and that was in finding corpses.  As has been pointed out at great length, Eddie's alerts were not indicative solely of a cadaver.

[debunker]

The value of the dogs in the McCann case is very questionable.   Even if we were 100% certain that Eddie alerted to cadaverine, without a confirmed DNA match you cannot say it came from Madeleine McCann.  The dog only really had one unquestionable use and that was in finding corpses.  As has been pointed out at great length, Eddie's alerts were not indicative solely of a cadaver.

But has one anti admitted that yet?

[Redblossom]

Oh! Well mistakes do happen. Well spotted, never seen that before. I know the boot of the car was not mentioned in the final PJ report as being alerted to by Eddie. But it doesnt matter does it? As if he had alerted inside the car, the fact that Keela also did would not suggest anything much.

Eddie alerts to a general dissipated scent that has attached itself to areas and objects way past the originating spot, unlike Keela who alerts to a very specific spot where physical evidence lies.

Also the fact that Eddie alerted to something coming out of the door seal, that he alerted to the key card separately and that Keela also alerted to that and in the boot, doesn't necessarily mean that he was not alerting to cadaver odour as well.


ETA, that was to Carana.

[Carana]

In other words, the whole media blitz that Eddie had, in fact, reacted to the boot (along with all the gruesome insinuations at the time) was.... a translation error.

At the same time, it doesn't take much to reaslise that Keela's markings do not resemble Eddie's.

[icabodcrane]

...  and whatever Eddie, the cadaver dog alerted to in the McCann's wardrobe,  it wasn't Paul Gordon's blood  ...  if it had been,  Keela, the blood dog would have alerted too  (  she didn't )

Was Keela shown the wardrobe?

She wasn't just shown it,  she thoroughly explored it. First the base,  then she jumped up onto the first shelf,  and was finally lifted onto the second shelf 

There was no blood in that wardrobe  ...  not Paul Gordon's ...  or anyone else's

Whatever Eddie alerted to there,  it was not blood

... Keela had a one in ten chance of a false negative ...

I don't think you can fairly apply  general  'statistics'  when refering to a particular dog, who's personal history and success rate is available

What information on this particular  dog do you base your conclusion that she errors one time in ten  ?

[Redblossom]

In other words, the whole media blitz that Eddie had, in fact, reacted to the boot (along with all the gruesome insinuations at the time) was.... a translation error.

At the same time, it doesn't take much to reaslise that Keela's markings do not resemble Eddie's.

If that was to me, I dont recall a media blitz about Eddie reacting in the boot, just to the car, and it wasnt what you would call a blitz either. Very little was in the media about this, apart from the time the files were made public initially, for a very brief period, and much of ridiculing the dogs, especially the Sun paper. Many other media outlets followed in that line, and then we had the Jersey debacle.

[Eleanor]

Jezuz, what am I doing still being here?  I have never come across such a pile of bolleaux in my entire life.
There is no evidence against The McCanns, never has been and never will be.  Sorry, it is over, beyond the possibility of  one day finding Madeleine.

[debunker]

Oh! Well mistakes do happen. Well spotted, never seen that before. I know the boot of the car was not mentioned in the final PJ report as being alerted to by Eddie. But it doesnt matter does it? As if he had alerted inside the car, the fact that Keela also did would not suggest anything much.

Eddie alerts to a general dissipated scent that has attached itself to areas and objects way past the originating spot, unlike Keela who alerts to a very specific spot where physical evidence lies.

Also the fact that Eddie alerted to something coming out of the door seal, that he alerted to the key card separately and that Keela also alerted to that and in the boot, doesn't necessarily mean that he was not alerting to cadaver odour as well.


ETA, that was to Carana.

Eddie alerts to any general dissipated scent of cadaver or BLOOD.

Eddie alerting and Keela alerting does not increase the knowledge that is produced by those alerts other than that blood id present. Cadaver odor remains undetermined from before to after the alerts

See my post on logic and apples and oranges.

[icabodcrane]

Jezuz, what am I doing still being here?  I have never come across such a pile of bolleaux in my entire life.
There is no evidence against The McCanns, never has been and never will be.  Sorry, it is over, beyond the possibility of  one day finding Madeleine.

I get what you're saying Eleanor  ...  going over and over the same ground does all seem a bit pointless

I guess the next time we'll have something new to say is when the libel trial happens  (   if it ever does )

[debunker]

...  and whatever Eddie, the cadaver dog alerted to in the McCann's wardrobe,  it wasn't Paul Gordon's blood  ...  if it had been,  Keela, the blood dog would have alerted too  (  she didn't )

Was Keela shown the wardrobe?

She wasn't just shown it,  she thoroughly explored it. First the base,  then she jumped up onto the first shelf,  and was finally lifted onto the second shelf 

There was no blood in that wardrobe  ...  not Paul Gordon's ...  or anyone else's

Whatever Eddie alerted to there,  it was not blood

... Keela had a one in ten chance of a false negative ...

I don't think you can fairly apply  general  'statistics'  when refering to a particular dog, who's personal history and success rate is available

What information on this particular  dog do you base your conclusion that she errors one time in ten  ?

It can be stated that there is no reason to believe that any scent dog is 100% accurate. None has ever proved to be so, and many have been shown to be considerably less accurate. There is no published peer reviewed research for any scent dog that shows 100% success rate. Best is about 90%, worst is 0% (the cloth squares with no scent at all, reacted to merely becasue of unconscious cuing by the handlers.

Given that no dog has ever done better than about 90% I am being generous in using that figure- many other pieces of research suggest much lower accuracy.

[sadie]

...  and whatever Eddie, the cadaver dog alerted to in the McCann's wardrobe,  it wasn't Paul Gordon's blood  ...  if it had been,  Keela, the blood dog would have alerted too  (  she didn't )

Was Keela shown the wardrobe?

She wasn't just shown it,  she thoroughly explored it. First the base,  then she jumped up onto the first shelf,  and was finally lifted onto the second shelf 

There was no blood in that wardrobe  ...  not Paul Gordon's ...  or anyone else's

Whatever Eddie alerted to there,  it was not blood

So were both dogs shown the wardrobe Icabod?