Author Topic: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?  (Read 71181 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2013, 09:01:56 PM »

There is nothing even remotely humble or ill informed about the opinions of Debunker.  But I would agree that he is a complete pain in the ar.. at times, simply because he is always right.


Exactly.  Love him or loathe him, debunker deals only in cold, hard facts.

Too cold and hard sometimes.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2013, 09:02:34 PM »
So why the 'enhanced' ?

Firstly Eddie was never a victim rescue dog but a cadaver dog, a victim recovery dog, ie trained to find dead people, the epithet of enhanced was used I thihk because he had extra training with real human dead bodies, and not just pig carcasses, pigs death scent being the closesf to human death scent, not sure why that is to behonest, but they use pig hearts dont they for transplants sometimes
Pigs it seems are the closest to us in terms of organ's compatibility. I have a feeling I read that "enhanced" means the dog alerts to residue (molecules).

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2013, 09:09:46 PM »
So why the 'enhanced' ?

Firstly Eddie was never a victim rescue dog but a cadaver dog, a victim recovery dog, ie trained to find dead people, the epithet of enhanced was used I thihk because he had extra training with real human dead bodies, and not just pig carcasses, pigs death scent being the closesf to human death scent, not sure why that is to behonest, but they use pig hearts dont they for transplants sometimes
Pigs it seems are the closest to us in terms of organ's compatibility. I have a feeling I read that "enhanced" means the dog alerts to residue (molecules).

I dont see why as other cadaver dogs react to residue as well, where remains have been removed, as shown in studies done. Thanks anyway, will google around it. Goodnight.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2013, 09:14:52 PM »

But has one anti admitted that yet?
I reckon you're using a lot the words "pro" and "anti", Debunker. Are you an anti or a pro, an anti pro or a pro anti, an anti pro and anti or a pro anti and pro ?

Sad isnt it, that labels have appeared, but thats half understandable, what just is not understandable is that some posters here and elsewhere, take something one *pro* or *anti* has said, or even a handful and then proceed to label ALL *[ censored word]* or *pros* with the same brush, alledging that they say or think the same and even if they dont attack said comments it MUST mean they condone them, Its pathetic and a sign of not alot of independent mentality IMO
People in normal life (not fighting on a forum between pro and anti (god knows what in fact ?) tend to abusively and ridiculously generalize : The French don't wash daily, British cook untasteful food, Portuguese are illiterate, etc.

Offline Carana

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2013, 09:28:08 PM »
That might be the case on actual operations, but not the case in training and testing, when its *known* the source is cadaver odour

qualifier to statement that eddies alert can NEVER be taken as indication of cadaver odour
 8(>((



ETA, not sure when keela was actually deployed, and I didnt onow Mark Harrison was her trainer either

http://web.archive.org/web/20060928071034/http://www.southyorks.police.uk/kidzone/dogdiary/index.php

keelas diary
 @)(++(*


Thanks for finding that again. I'd read it at the time, but it was taken off at some point.



Top Dog
Keela could be described as ‘top dog’ in her field of expertise. The trained Crime Scene Investigation (CSI) dog has skills like no other and it has left forces worldwide hankering after an insight into her special training.

At the tender age of 16 months, the spaniel has already travelled to Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and Thames Valley to assist with enquires and has made quite an impression.

Keela’s trusty handler Martin Grime is responsible for all training that she has received, together with the National Search Adviser, Mark Harrison.

At present the Force has two victim recovery dogs, Frankie and Eddie. Martin also handles Eddie and has been working with him since he joined up around four years ago.

Keela is trained to locate minute samples of blood and can assist not only in murder investigation but also with scenes of crime teams to identify and recover evidence more efficiently.

Martin explained the reasons for training a CSI dog: “Although South Yorkshire Police have two victim recovery dogs that can detect blood and human remains we felt the need to separate the two search areas. We wanted to create a more specific working dog that could accurately detect very small samples of human blood.

“We had to change the way the dog is trained to alert its handler about a ‘find’. Normal recovery dogs will bark to signal this. In this case it is not appropriate, as the dog would be trained to sniff out blood that is often too small for the human eye to see. Instead, the dog will locate the contaminated area by pointing its nose at the spot where the blood is situated. This is much more accurate.”

This idea has been put forward to senior crime managers and forensic scientists and the response has been very enthusiastic.

In June 2004 Keela was assigned to Martin. The eight-week-old puppy, bred by West Midlands Police, then became the centre of an experiment evaluated by Mark to see whether a dog could be trained to work as part of the team.

Unlike other dogs in the department Keela never participated in the usual six-week course. Martin trained her bit by bit everyday.

Keela followed a programme training her to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood. She is also trained to have a ‘passive’ alert- where she freezes with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.

The springer spaniel has now been fully trained and licensed. She works nationally and is deployed by the National Crime and Operations Faculty (NCOF) to high profile murders, missing persons and abductions. She is deployed within South Yorkshire on the directions of Detective Superintendent Kevin Morton to murders and serious assaults etc.

Martin is continuing to develop Keela but his methods are being kept a closely guarded secret until the experiment has been given approval of the ACPO committee.

Keela can search any area including houses, cars, boats, both indoors and outdoors. On duty she will lead Martin to spots of blood so small that humans can’t see them.

She screens textiles and can pick out clothing with blood on even after it has been washed many times in biological washing powder. Offenders can’t even trick her by trying to clean their weapons, as Keela would still smell blood after attempts have been made to wash away the evidence.

Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable said: " Keela's training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often. Martin has developed this capability through innovation and experience, and we are now considering how best to develop the training further. We know other forces are interested, both here and abroad, and we must see what opportunities we can develop. We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way."

Even in the early stages of her career Keela has been more successful than her trainers hoped. She has had a number of operational finds recovering murder weapons, identifying the blood of a victim in a suspect’s car and screening numerous amounts of clothing belonging to suspects.

Keela has made huge efficiency savings for the force in just eight months of work. Nationally since 1 April 2005 she has made savings of approximately £200,000.

A particular example where Keela has proven her efficiency was during a job in Wiltshire. Martin explained: “As a result of this incident 350 items of clothing had been recovered which all needed testing for evidence. To have the items examined at the forensic lab would have cost £200 for each item.

Keela managed to help in just one day which resulted in eight pieces of clothing being detected with blood stains on them.”

The future definitely looks bright for the fun- loving dog wanted to work with the FBI in America. Luckily she has a full pet passport to enable her to jet off to the States where she will assist with two murder enquires at the beginning of next year.

Offline Eleanor

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2013, 09:36:02 PM »
We don't actually know who tried to settle out of Court.  We only know that only The Plaintiff can ask the Court for a postponement, which ever of them might seek a settlement.
But it doesn't really matter because The Trial is back on, at the behest of The McCann.  So they don't look like they are backing out to me.

Offline John

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2013, 12:50:55 AM »

I guess the next time we'll have something new to say is when the libel trial happens  (   if it ever does )
I've a feeling it will not.

mccanns have everythng to lose going ahead with it imo, so they will back out of their ill conceived vexatious money grabbing  litigation, all signs pointing they already tried to by teying to get Mr Amaral to settle out of court


If you were in the McCann's shoes Redblossom and Amaral libelled you in that he claimed that you were directly involved in the disappearance of your child, would you just sit back and take it?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2013, 12:55:45 AM »

I guess the next time we'll have something new to say is when the libel trial happens  (   if it ever does )
I've a feeling it will not.

mccanns have everythng to lose going ahead with it imo, so they will back out of their ill conceived vexatious money grabbing  litigation, all signs pointing they already tried to by teying to get Mr Amaral to settle out of court


If you were in the McCann's shoes Redblossom and Amaral libelled you in that he claimed that you were directly involved in the disappearance of your child, would you just sit back and take it?

If you were in the  McCann's shoes John, and Amaral libellelled you in that he claimed you were directly involved in the disappearance of your child  ...  would you give him the opportunity to settle out of court  ?

Offline John

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2013, 01:18:38 AM »

If you were in the  McCann's shoes John, and Amaral libelled you in that he claimed you were directly involved in the disappearance of your child  ...  would you give him the opportunity to settle out of court  ?

Most certainly yes as by doing so would obviate the need for prolonged and stressful court proceedings. Any agreement would of course also be based on the formal retraction of the offending allegations and defamation and include an apology for the hurt and damage caused.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2013, 01:38:36 AM »

I think that most reasonable people would. Who wants a libel Trial?  Apart from me, of course.  But even I would settle for a couple of grand.  But then I am poverty stricken

 Amaral had to be stopped because he was just getting worse and worse, and saying even more horrible things.  But he was never going to be stopped by a polite request
Mr Bennett was exactly the same.  The more The McCanns turned the other cheek, the worse he got.

For all I know both Amaral and Bennett believe that The McCanns are culpable.  But they don't have any evidence.  And "Believing" just isn't enough to take these sorts of accusations out into the real world.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2013, 01:43:35 AM »

If you were in the  McCann's shoes John, and Amaral libelled you in that he claimed you were directly involved in the disappearance of your child  ...  would you give him the opportunity to settle out of court  ?

Most certainly yes as by doing so would obviate the need for prolonged and stressful court proceedings. Any agreement would of course also be based on the formal retraction of the offending allegations and defamation and include an apology for the hurt and damage caused.

... and a 'gagging order'  ...  as in an undertaking to never repeat the libel again

That would be a 'given'  in any out of court settlement,  without question

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2013, 01:47:42 AM »

The more The McCanns turned the other cheek, the worse he got.

I don't remember having seen this.
When you despise someone because s(h)e takes you for what you're not, isn't it better to just ignore ?

Offline Eleanor

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2013, 01:56:30 AM »

The more The McCanns turned the other cheek, the worse he got.

I don't remember having seen this.
When you despise someone because s(h)e takes you for what you're not, isn't it better to just ignore ?

So you would ignore if someone persistently accused you of killing your child, and then dropped leaflets to that effect into the doors of your neighbours?

Offline Admin

Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2013, 02:02:11 AM »
What would you do icabodcrane if you were the subject of the libel?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How many episodes of dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odor?
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2013, 02:10:07 AM »
What would you do ica?

If I was sure  ...  if I  knew ... that a policeman had not only smeared my good name,  but had interfered in, and hindered, the search for my missing child,  I would take him to court and ruin  him  ... I would finish him, and take every penny of his ill gotten gains to add to to the search fund for my missing babe ... that's what I'd do

Would I  'negotiate'  with him  ...  not in my dreams