Author Topic: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.  (Read 149175 times)

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Offline colombosstogey

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #495 on: February 19, 2014, 06:53:23 AM »
A three year old child was reported missing,  never to be seen again,  and a dog trained to bark at the smell of death barked in the flat where she was last seen alive

Unless evidence is found that the little girl did  not  die in that apartment,  then it is simply not possible to dismiss the indications given by  the dog

*edited to add*

As far as we know,  the dog may have been accurate in his alerts  and the missing child did    die in the apartment   

There is nothing,  by way of evidence  (  apart from her parents'  assertions  )  to say she did not

BUT thats the sticking point isnt it, how can they assert that really? She could have died.

We get told perhaps the abductor was in the apartment all the time GM was there, and afterwards. Perhaps the Abductor had held of the child and covered her mouth, and she suffocated. The perb is panicking what to do, so stays there to gather thoughts hiding in the McCanns bedroom/wardrobe perhaps, then waits and takes the child with him to give more time to get away....WHO KNOWS.

What I do find very strange is the dog alerts later...

Cadaver: 'Piece of Madeleine’s clothing'
 
Cadaver: 'Stuffed toy'
 
Cadaver: 'Two pieces of clothing or Kate Healy McCann'
 
Cadaver/Biological vestiges: 'Luggage area and car keys of the McCanns'


Why Kates clothing, and why a piece of the childs clothing. Were they in a bag with the childs body? or was the body laid close to these pieces of clothing.

Mrs McCann might not have worn these 2 articles of clothing and she would not have needed to wash the article of Maddys if it was clean.

ALL very odd.......

I can kind of get around the apartment, but not the clothing or the car.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #496 on: February 19, 2014, 07:54:21 AM »
I think the problem you have is not with the dogs but the location the dogs alerted. If the dogs only alerted 100 yards away then maybe you would be less inclined to dismiss their findings. The problem with the dogs alerting in the apartment and on clothing is that in order for you to blindly back the McCanns you have no choice but to dismiss the dogs previous good work because otherwise there are too many unanswered questions.

First you and others accuse me of blindly backing the mccanns ...thats quite insulting....
I am well educated with a very strong scientific background. In science evidence is very important and part of scientific education is the assessment of evidence.

I back the mccanns because of the evidence
I dont accept it is proved that Maddie died in the apartment because of the evidence

i accept the dogs are incredible tools..but...your interpretaion of the findings are plain wrong......and grime agrees with me

try following the evidence

It doesnt matter that a few ill informed posters on here dont understand the evidence and have everything back to front...the people who matter...the professionals, including grime...agree with me

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #497 on: February 19, 2014, 08:14:09 AM »

I am well educated with a very strong scientific background.



It's strange that only one side of the debate constantly bigs up their intelligence, education and training.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #498 on: February 19, 2014, 08:17:50 AM »
You make an excellent point amanda

A three year old  child is reported missing by her parents 

A dog who is trained to bark when he detects the scent of death, barks in the apartment where the missing child was last seen  alive  (  by the parents who reported her missing  )

The child is never seen again

There is simply no reason to  presume  the dog was mistaken  ...   nothing in this story suggests that he was

no one is presuming anything..we are listening to the expert..grime..he knows a lot more than you

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #499 on: February 19, 2014, 08:21:41 AM »
It's strange that only one side of the debate constantly bigs up their intelligence, education and training.

I am answering a post where I am being accused of blindly following the mcccanns...simply giving a guide to my background to show that I am used to working with evidence

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #500 on: February 19, 2014, 08:31:53 AM »
I am answering a post where I am being accused of blindly following the mcccanns...simply giving a guide to my background to show that I am used to working with evidence

Just a general observation.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #501 on: February 19, 2014, 08:33:18 AM »
It's strange that only one side of the debate constantly bigs up their intelligence, education and training.

Even this statement isn't true...do you remember Stephen telling us he teaches chemistry, and statistics ...then trying to catch me out by asking me a chemistry question and making a bit of a fool of himself

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #502 on: February 19, 2014, 08:34:59 AM »
Just a general observation.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

This is why I bow to Grimes superior knowledge re the dogs...problem is that some posters on here think they know more than Grime

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #503 on: February 19, 2014, 08:42:05 AM »
Just a general observation.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

this is a line from the article you quoted..


2.The claim being made by the person is within her area(s) of expertise.
If a person makes a claim about some subject outside of his area(s) of expertise, then the person is not an expert in that context. Hence, the claim in question is not backed by the required degree of expertise and is not reliable.


So all the claims on this forum by icad..Colombo..red..re the dogs should be treated as not reliable...couldn't agree more

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #504 on: February 19, 2014, 08:51:53 AM »
this is a line from the article you quoted..


2.The claim being made by the person is within her area(s) of expertise.
If a person makes a claim about some subject outside of his area(s) of expertise, then the person is not an expert in that context. Hence, the claim in question is not backed by the required degree of expertise and is not reliable.


So all the claims on this forum by icad..Colombo..red..re the dogs should be treated as not reliable...couldn't agree more

No as long as contributors use information from the files or other reliable sources to back up their claims that is fine.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #505 on: February 19, 2014, 08:54:16 AM »
No as long as contributors use information from the files or other reliable sources to back up their claims that is fine.

But not when they are giving their opinions....such as claims re the dogs alerts when Grime has said no evidential value without corroborating evidence

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #506 on: February 19, 2014, 09:10:32 AM »
But not when they are giving their opinions....such as claims re the dogs alerts when Grime has said no evidential value without corroborating evidence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #507 on: February 19, 2014, 09:21:52 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context

The quote is not out of context your claim is false..even red accepted it last night..

alerts without corroboration have no evidential value,,...the evrd alerts were not corroborated..you just cant accept the truth

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #508 on: February 19, 2014, 09:23:53 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context

Actually, just realised, it is not so much the out of context it is the fact that you state that Grime says the alerts have no evidential value and imply that he means the alerts are false.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.
« Reply #509 on: February 19, 2014, 09:35:41 AM »
Actually, just realised, it is not so much the out of context it is the fact that you state that Grime says the alerts have no evidential value and imply that he means the alerts are false.

I think if you have only just realised something after all this time you are wasting your time and mine...I am implying nothing...I am repeating almost verbatim what grime says..grime does not use the words false...useless..etc and neither do I..Im off now this is a complete waste of time...I believe grime...the expert..you can believe Colombo and the like...it really doesn't matter..your views and mine are unimportant