The truth about the failed marking of cuddle cat by cadaver dog Eddie

[Benice]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

Not necessarily unprofessional, but he was aware that he was part of an investigation that was being watched worldwide.   That's quite a bit of pressure for anyone to be under.   
 

[ferryman]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

There was some shocking bad practice in deployment of the dogs and inexplicable decisions to conduct searches in places Madeleine never went near ....

You're missing my point ferryman

I am saying that if Mr Grime,  who worked for the British police,  was  'prone'  to cueing his dogs,  consiously or not   (  for attention ? ...  acclaim ?   )   then it would be much more likely that he would have done so in Robert Murat's house

...  or are we to believe that, for some unknown reason,  he  'had it in for the McCanns'  specificly  ?

Well, don't forget that, by Amaral's account, Harrison had decided before an English dog had set paw on Portuguese soil the McCanns were very probably guilty.

I wonder if there is a clue there?

[Benice]

I simply cannot accept the suggestion that Mr Grime  'lead'  his dog into alerting

I'll give you my reasoning

At that point, Mr Grime would have been fully aware of the huge public support the McCanns had

He will have known that very high ranking officials in government  ( right up to the Prime Minister ), together with wealthy and influential businessmen and showbiz stars,    had been actively supporting the McCanns

What   ...  WHAT  ... could he possibly have had to gain by prompting his dogs to falsely alert in the McCann's villa ?

It makes no sense at all

If it was 'unconscious' cueing - he wouldn't be aware that he was doing it.    If (in view of the above) he was too eager or even anxious to 'get it right' that could have affected him.    Anyone who has dog will know they are  brilliant on picking up on the tiniest changes in the body language of their owners.


   

What are you talking about, Benice, Mr Grime isn't an armchair handler, but a police officer who has trained his dogs for years, observing, caring, meditating ! Moreover, in the PDL operation, he wasn't alone, Gott sei Dank, he had with him the head of British sleuths concerning disappearances, Mr Harrison !

He's still human Anne!    Tests have been carried out - using police handlers and their dogs which have proved that cueing, be it conscious or unconscious is a fact of life.

[icabodcrane]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

Not necessarily unprofessional, but he was aware that he was part of an investigation that was being watched worldwide.   That's quite a bit of pressure for anyone to be under.   

I agree   

At that time the McCanns were being feted by the great and good   ...   was it before or after Gerry was nominated as Scot of the year and received a standing ovation from a national police convention ?

Grime was under  that  kind of pressure

I just don't believe that he would 'cue'  his dogs into falsely alerting in the McCanns villa ... why  would  he ?

[ferryman]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

Not necessarily unprofessional, but he was aware that he was part of an investigation that was being watched worldwide.   That's quite a bit of pressure for anyone to be under.   

I agree   

At that time the McCanns were being feted by the great and good   ...   was it before or after Gerry was nominated as Scot of the year and received a standing ovation from a national police convention ?

Grime was under  that  kind of pressure

I just don't believe that he would 'cue'  his dogs into falsely alerting in the McCanns villa ... why  would  he ?

I'm sure you've watched the video of the inspection of the vehicles, as we all have.
Would you not say there was a fairly heavy emphasis on the Renault, almost to the exclusion of the other vehicles? 

[Benice]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

There was some shocking bad practice in deployment of the dogs and inexplicable decisions to conduct searches in places Madeleine never went near ....

You're missing my point ferryman

I am saying that if Mr Grime,  who worked for the British police,  was  'prone'  to cueing his dogs,  consiously or not   (  for attention ? ...  acclaim ?   )   then it would be much more likely that he would have done so in Robert Murat's house

...  or are we to believe that, for some unknown reason,  he  'had it in for the McCanns'  specificly  ?

Didn't he search RM's house after his dogs had alerted at 5a.  If so, then maybe he was thinking along the lines of 'job done'  and not be expecting to find anything at Murat's.   It's the 'expectation' factor that can cause cueing.   If Murat's car was one of those at the car park - then he certainly didn't pay it anywhere near the attention he paid to the McCanns car.

[John]

Please don't deviate from topic.  The thread relates solely to Eddie and Cuddle Cat.

[icabodcrane]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

Not necessarily unprofessional, but he was aware that he was part of an investigation that was being watched worldwide.   That's quite a bit of pressure for anyone to be under.   

I agree   

At that time the McCanns were being feted by the great and good   ...   was it before or after Gerry was nominated as Scot of the year and received a standing ovation from a national police convention ?

Grime was under  that  kind of pressure

I just don't believe that he would 'cue'  his dogs into falsely alerting in the McCanns villa ... why  would  he ?

I'm sure you've watched the video of the inspection of the vehicles, as we all have.
Would you not say there was a fairly heavy emphasis on the Renault, almost to the exclusion of the other vehicles?

Yes,  from the footage we have it does appear that alot more time was spent on the McCann vehicle

Do you know why I think that may have been ?  ...  because the dogs had already alerted exclusively  in the McCann's apartment

I think they felt they  'had their man'  at that point  ...  had felt it from the moment that dog threw his head back and barked with such certainty to the shelf in the McCann's wardrobe

...  that's why they spent more time on the McCann car perhaps,  and why they persisted with the cuddle toy  ...  they were  expecting alerts by then   ( and they came )

[AnneGuedes]

I simply cannot accept the suggestion that Mr Grime  'lead'  his dog into alerting

I'll give you my reasoning

At that point, Mr Grime would have been fully aware of the huge public support the McCanns had

He will have known that very high ranking officials in government  ( right up to the Prime Minister ), together with wealthy and influential businessmen and showbiz stars,    had been actively supporting the McCanns

What   ...  WHAT  ... could he possibly have had to gain by prompting his dogs to falsely alert in the McCann's villa ?

It makes no sense at all

If it was 'unconscious' cueing - he wouldn't be aware that he was doing it.    If (in view of the above) he was too eager or even anxious to 'get it right' that could have affected him.    Anyone who has dog will know they are  brilliant on picking up on the tiniest changes in the body language of their owners.


   

What are you talking about, Benice, Mr Grime isn't an armchair handler, but a police officer who has trained his dogs for years, observing, caring, meditating ! Moreover, in the PDL operation, he wasn't alone, Gott sei Dank, he had with him the head of British sleuths concerning disappearances, Mr Harrison !

He's still human Anne!    Tests have been carried out - using police handlers and their dogs which have proved that cueing, be it conscious or unconscious is a fact of life.

That's why they were two, a handler and a supervisor. Fighting against humanity in themselves !
Now why would they try to frame the McCann couple ? Had they a feeling, an intuition that those weren't telling the truth ?

[AnneGuedes]

Whether you like or not, they knew their dogs, they knew that, within right/false alerts probabilities, those dogs had discovered some fatality had happened to little Madeleine McCann. As they couldn't prove it, neither who, why and how, they had no other reasonable choice than stepping backwards.
And because they did it, they're now laughed at and ridiculed ! Bravo !

[icabodcrane]

Whether you like or not, they knew their dogs, they knew that, within right/false alerts probabilities, those dogs had discovered some fatality had happened to little Madeleine McCann. As they couldn't prove it, neither who, why and how, they had no other reasonable choice than stepping backwards.
And because they did it, they're now laughed at and ridiculed ! Bravo !

It really is quite astonishing that people with no real expertise presume  to know more about Martin Grime's dogs than he does !

*shakes head in bemusement *

[registrar]

Whether you like or not, they knew their dogs, they knew that, within right/false alerts probabilities, those dogs had discovered some fatality had happened to little Madeleine McCann. As they couldn't prove it, neither who, why and how, they had no other reasonable choice than stepping backwards.
And because they did it, they're now laughed at and ridiculed ! Bravo !

It really is quite astonishing that people with no real expertise presume  to know more about Martin Grime's dogs than he does !

*shakes head in bemusement *

Any quips about missing children on this thread?

[debunker]

'Leading' otherwise known as cueing may be done quite unconsciously.

I just think that if Mr Grime was that unprofessional, then, given the circumstances surrounding the case, it was much more likely that he would have  'unconsiously cued'  in Robert Murat's gaff

Not if he had been briefed that the McCanns were the real suspects. Look at the amount of time he gave to the obvious McCann car.

[debunker]

Extend your vocabulary. Look up gullible.

[debunker]

Whether you like or not, they knew their dogs, they knew that, within right/false alerts probabilities, those dogs had discovered some fatality had happened to little Madeleine McCann. As they couldn't prove it, neither who, why and how, they had no other reasonable choice than stepping backwards.
And because they did it, they're now laughed at and ridiculed ! Bravo !

Please use English correctly.

They did not know "that, within right/false alerts probabilities, those dogs had discovered some fatality had happened to little Madeleine McCann"

This is why you make so many error. They may have believed that All they 'knew' was that the dogs had alerted. They also 'knew' that that did NOT mean that a cadaver had ben there. Mr Grime is extremely careful to never say that.

Know and believe are two very difficult entities.

Please use them correctly.

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