Author Topic: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?  (Read 125744 times)

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Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #270 on: June 10, 2013, 09:08:46 AM »
Another question

The McCanns believe the man the Smith family saw that night was the same man Jane Tanner saw almost an hour before  ...  correct  ?

So before they went public with the suggestion that  the moustachioed, buck- toothed man Gail Cooper saw  might have been the abductor,  did they have their private detectives run it past the Smiths  first ?  ...  did they show the Smiths the sketch of Gail Cooper's  creepy man and ask,   "Is this the man you saw that night ?"

I would guess they didn't,  given that the descriptions given by the Smith family, who, like Gail Cooper, saw the man face-on,  did not match her description in any way
The McCann's (if your assumption is correct) could well have believed that the Cooper and Smith person of interest was the same person. Write or wrong, that is not my argument, but I am saying that your proof that they tried to 'fix' the situation to show that they are the same person is wrong. And you provide the proof of such yourself.

You claim that the McCann's had an agenda by employing (well not them directly but a third party employed her) the sketch artist, but when she produces accurate representations of possible people of interest by two separate witnesses - proving she did her own work and was not influenced by the McCann's - you question why the Cooper and Smith description is not the same.

So you have shown; the artist was not influenced and the McCann's could have been wrong.
 
Smith could have seen the same man as Tanner, but it could be that it wasn't the same man as Cooper saw.

Offline Mrs. B

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #271 on: June 10, 2013, 09:10:30 AM »
Computer Program Uses Interactive Genetic Algorithm to Help Witnesses Remember Criminals

Nov. 30, 2009 — Criminals are having a harder time hiding their faces, thanks to new software that helps witnesses recreate and recognize suspects using principles borrowed from the fields of optics and genetics.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091005161328.htm

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #272 on: June 10, 2013, 09:17:28 AM »
A good post Ica.    8@??)(      Tanner would have known instantly whether the guy in Gail Coopers photofit had any significance for her but has chosen to remain silent even though as you point out he is nothing like the man described by the smith family.  Martin Smith made the mistake of claiming that the man looked like Gerry yet Gerry is nothing like the gypsy type character witnesses by Cooper.
Smith could have seen the same man as Tanner, but it could be that it wasn't the same man as Cooper saw. That would explain a lot but somehow those who can't see this continue to use this as some sort of evidence of a 'fix'.

Surely if McCann's wanted to 'fix' the situation and pin it on someone they would have got their story straight and not have released any photofit that would contradict their belief that Cooper and Smith sighting was the same man. Yet they went ahead and released what looks like different people of interest. And I repeat - Which proves that although Coopers man might not have been the same person as Smith, Tanners man could still be the same as Smiths man.   

Offline Angelo222

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #273 on: June 10, 2013, 09:28:52 AM »
Smith could have seen the same man as Tanner, but it could be that it wasn't the same man as Cooper saw. That would explain a lot but somehow those who can't see this continue to use this as some sort of evidence of a 'fix'.

Surely if McCann's wanted to 'fix' the situation and pin it on someone they would have got their story straight and not have released any photofit that would contradict their belief that Cooper and Smith sighting was the same man. Yet they went ahead and released what looks like different people of interest. And I repeat - Which proves that although Coopers man might not have been the same person as Smith, Tanners man could still be the same as Smiths man.   

As has already been pointed out Jane described a guy with near shoulder length hair yet Martin Smith calimed the man they saw had short hair like Gerry McCann.  Are we expected to believe the mystery man went for a short back and sides in the 40 or so intervening minutes between the sightings??
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 09:30:38 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #274 on: June 10, 2013, 10:12:42 AM »
As has already been pointed out Jane described a guy with near shoulder length hair yet Martin Smith calimed the man they saw had short hair like Gerry McCann.  Are we expected to believe the mystery man went for a short back and sides in the 40 or so intervening minutes between the sightings??
Would you agree that not every single person who saw the same persons recall will be 100% accurate? That it is quite possible that two people seeing the same person could have got hair length wrong but that does not mean they got the person wrong. How many photofits are done by the police and other agencies which doesn't depict the exact representation of a person of interest YET they do find the person. 

It would appear that those who are looking for proof that the Smith and Tanner person is not the same (because it would provide stronger proof that an abduction took place by a stranger) are actually acknowledging that there was a person seeing carrying a child.

Offline faithlilly

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #275 on: June 10, 2013, 11:12:08 AM »
Could be that the "striding out pose" was conveyed to the sketch artist so she depicted him in that way. The best way to trigger someones memory is not only to show what they look like, but also to include a mannerism.

Like the way you carry a child who is asleep ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline John

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #276 on: June 10, 2013, 01:51:14 PM »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #277 on: June 10, 2013, 02:07:01 PM »
Would you agree that not every single person who saw the same persons recall will be 100% accurate? That it is quite possible that two people seeing the same person could have got hair length wrong but that does not mean they got the person wrong. How many photofits are done by the police and other agencies which doesn't depict the exact representation of a person of interest YET they do find the person. 

It would appear that those who are looking for proof that the Smith and Tanner person is not the same (because it would provide stronger proof that an abduction took place by a stranger) are actually acknowledging that there was a person seeing carrying a child.

I agree with your comments Mo but all the same, Mr Smith was adamant at one time that the man he saw was Gerry McCann.  As length of hair is one of the primary things we notice about someone surely he couldn't have got that so terribly wrong?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Lace

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #278 on: June 10, 2013, 04:08:48 PM »
As has already been pointed out Jane described a guy with near shoulder length hair yet Martin Smith calimed the man they saw had short hair like Gerry McCann.  Are we expected to believe the mystery man went for a short back and sides in the 40 or so intervening minutes between the sightings??

...

I don't think Jane described the abductor with shoulder length hair.

Didn't she say 'thick hair longer at the back' ?

If Smith looked at him from the front then yes he would have hair like Gerry McCann,   if he had looked back at him he would see that it was longer at the back.

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #279 on: June 10, 2013, 04:13:55 PM »
Like the way you carry a child who is asleep ?
No. The way he stood, tilted his head, what he looked like, any striking features, etc is what a photofit concentrated on and not the way he carried the child. If you insist on the "carry a child" angle 9excuse the pun)then lets explore it shall we?

To be able to compare or draw a comparison to others and be able to identify a person by the way he/she carried a child one would have to have a community who regularly carry their children around. If no one carries their children around then there is nothing to 'use' or observe to compare to. Everyone carrying their children around carry them in different ways for different situations. Should the child the man in the photofit have been Madeleine, then it was generally accepted she was either sleeping or drugged. Sleeping children are generally carried in another way i.e. over the shoulder (but not always exclusively). If everyone followed your rule - carried their children in exactly the same way as the man in the photofit then you can use the method or way of carrying the child as a factor in the photofit for the public to look out for/use to identify the person. But that is not what the photofit concentrated on.

The angle at which the child was carried is of little relevance unless you have everyone in the world carrying their children around so that one has something to compare the photofit to.
 
A possible suspect is able to change the way he carries a child because it has been made public, making the importance of the angle carried in the photofit invalid, BUT he can't change his facial features.

Therefore the angle at which the child was carried is irrelevant. What is relevant and of importance is the way the person looked and any feature like a body posture that will trigger the memory of someone who might have seen him.
Capiche!

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #280 on: June 10, 2013, 04:24:27 PM »
I agree with your comments Mo but all the same, Mr Smith was adamant at one time that the man he saw was Gerry McCann.  As length of hair is one of the primary things we notice about someone surely he couldn't have got that so terribly wrong?
Does Mr Smith not say that it could look like Gerry? He does not state it is Gerry McCann. Have you ever had a conversation with someone and drawn a comparison with someones basic features and said, "it could be Keira Knightley I saw at the hotel....". That indicates that they shared similar features but that it doesn't necessarily mean it was Keira Knightley you saw. 

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #281 on: June 10, 2013, 04:28:29 PM »
The Calpol discussion has been spun off to...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1766.msg48248#msg48248
I find it odd that you would advertise another discussion on this thread. There has been no mentions in the past two/three if not more pages, of Calpol on this thread. Why do you want attention diverted from this thread?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #282 on: June 10, 2013, 05:09:39 PM »
The only witnesses to see a man carrying a child that night were Jane Tanner and the Smith family

None of them described the man as looking like ( or even remotely similar to ) the man described by Gail Cooper

Yet the McCanns  presented a sketch of the man Gail Cooper saw and intimated that he may have been the man the witnesses saw carrying a child that night ... why ? ... based on what  ?  ( it certainly wasn't based on what the witnesses themselves had said  ) 

Offline Mo Stache

Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #283 on: June 10, 2013, 05:13:07 PM »
The only witnesses to see a man carrying a child that night were Jane Tanner and the Smith family

None of them described the man as looking like ( or even remotely similar to ) the man described by Gail Cooper

Yet the McCanns  presented a sketch of the man Gail Cooper saw and intimated that he may have been the man the witnesses saw carrying a child that night ... why ? ... based on what  ?  ( it certainly wasn't based on what the witnesses themselves had said  )
What do you think the 'why' and 'based on what' is?


icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: How likely is it that Jane Tanner and the Smiths saw the 'same' man ?
« Reply #284 on: June 10, 2013, 05:16:06 PM »
What do you think the 'why' and 'based on what' is?

I have no idea why the McCanns related the man Gail Cooper saw to the man Jane Tanner saw ...  that's why I asked the question

Any ideas ?