After the Smiths sighting - Where could this mystery man have gone? Land or Sea?

[AnneGuedes]

No final do 1.º trimestre de 2007 existiam 12,4 milhões de assinantes do Serviço Telefónico Móvel, mais 1,2% que no trimestre anterior e mais 7,1% que no período homólogo.
17.05.2007
Population : 10.555.853 in 2011.
It means that some people have more than 1 cellphone.
I'm not poor, I have none.

[sadie]

No final do 1.º trimestre de 2007 existiam 12,4 milhões de assinantes do Serviço Telefónico Móvel, mais 1,2% que no trimestre anterior e mais 7,1% que no período homólogo.
17.05.2007
Population : 10.555.853 in 2011.
It means that some people have more than 1 cellphone.
I'm not poor, I have none.

Same in England now.  Everyone has a cell phone these days

Even I do, but I dont use it.

[faithlilly]

Yep, plenty of abandoned buildings in the old part of PdL, but not around OC.  All modern there .... no abandoned buildings at all.

Who says he had a mobile phone?  We are talking over six years ago in a financially poor country.  Where ordinary peeps had few luxuries.

Two years before that, hubby and I wandered across N Spain and then down thru PT, before stiking east via Salamanca, Segovia and wending our way back home.

My hubby likes gizmos and we had a Sat Nav (thank goodness) and we nearly caused pile ups in Leon in Spain, cos all the drivers thought that we were watching TV !  They couldn't believe it and were peering into the car rather than watching the road, in a busy city.  ... Leon isn't a backwoods place either.

Now that was in Spain.  They were years behind us with electronic gizmos .. and I suspect PT would have been even further behind us.  Furthermore, I dont recall seeing anyone using a mobile phone ... but to be fair I wasn't looking especially.

Who says he had a mobile phone?  Maybe even if he did, it was thought better that he did not carry one .... ? in case of it ringing or losing it.  Also if he were caught, there was a danger of identifying not only him, but additionally his co-abductors.


BTW, how do you know the staff quarters were teeming with people?  It is a very big blue and white block and most places in May 2007 were empty.   Bet it was half empty, but I dont know.  Do you?

Thanks for helping me sort this out

I could name 3 abandoned buildings of off the top of my head that were nearer to the OC than the staff quarters.

As to the mobile phone, surely you don't believe that when stealing a child worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, the abductor wouldn't have or be given a mobile phone, just in case, even in Portugal ! As to the phone identifying him or the organiser, how could it if it was a non-registered pay as you go model ?

As to the staff quarters, PDL may have been quiet but the OC would still have been heavily staffed.

[sadie]

I could name 3 abandoned buildings of off the top of my head that were nearer to the OC than the staff quarters.

OK .... Name them ... full addresses please

[stephen25000]

OK .... Name them ... full addresses please

Try researching yourself sadie.

[sadie]

Faithlily

I could name 3 abandoned buildings of off the top of my head that were nearer to the OC than the staff quarters.

OK .... Name them ... full addresses please

Or a GEarth map posted ... with the abandoned buildings clearly pinpointed would be fine

[Sherlock Holmes]

Surely if there was OC involvement, the last thing bundleman would want to do would be to draw attention to the fact by using the staff quarters on the night.

[faithlilly]

Surely if there was OC involvement, the last thing bundleman would want to do would be to draw attention to the fact by using the staff quarters on the night.

Especially if he had left the children's bedroom window open in order to deflect from the fact that a key had been used with the inherent suggestion that it was an inside job.

[AnneGuedes]

Especially if he had left the children's bedroom window open in order to deflect from the fact that a key had been used with the inherent suggestion that it was an inside job.

He was lucky the twins slept in spite of the chilly wind through the window and the curtains flying over them. Lucky too Mr Oldfield saw nothing, heard nothing, felt nothing.

[sadie]

He was lucky the twins slept in spite of the chilly wind through the window and the curtains flying over them. Lucky too Mr Oldfield saw nothing, heard nothing, felt nothing.

It was gusty.  That means that it was blowing in gusts with a lull in between, so the curtains would not be blowing all the time.  For a man who had just walked around in the 16* temperature, it wouldn't be noticeably cool, even with a window open some.

What are you expecting that he would see, Anne?
What are you expecting that he would hear Anne?


Janes sighting had been several minutes before.    Bundleman and Madeleine were gone.  We know that he didn't look specifically for Madeleine.  Her bed was around the corner out of sight.

[sadie]

Especially if he had left the children's bedroom window open in order to deflect from the fact that a key had been used with the inherent suggestion that it was an inside job.

deleted.

[sadie]

Surely if there was OC involvement, the last thing bundleman would want to do would be to draw attention to the fact by using the staff quarters on the night.

If my theory is right Sherlock, then bundleman was left carrying a stolen child cos his get-away driver had scarpered

He was holding a very valuable child and didn't want to abandon her.  He was scared stiff.

He didn't know what to do, he didn't know where to go for help.

The only person who could help him was the lifter, who I believe was OC staff ...[ two reasons for that belief].

So he made his way to where this person, probably a woman, lived at the Staff Quarters.  He didn't want o go there but he had no other choices. He was in real trouble.



Now what I truly cant understand is why some of the posters on here are so adamant that he didn't go there.  Why would that be? 

Are they afraid that it points to OC staff involvement?  Why should that worry them?



There has to be a reason why some posters are so adamant that he didn't go there ?  What is it to them ?

For evcrything that is done there is always a reason.  Things dont just happen


So why are some posters on here are so adament that he did NOT go there?  What is it to them ? .... Hmmm ?  >@@(*&)


... And after all it is only a theory, but one that ticks ALL the boxes.  >@@(*&)

[Sherlock Holmes]

If my theory is right Sherlock, then bundleman was left carrying a stolen child cos his get-away driver had scarpered

He was holding a very valuable child and didn't want to abandon her.  He was scared stiff.

He didn't know what to do, he didn't know where to go for help.

The only person who could help him was the lifter, who I believe was OC staff ...[ two reasons for that belief].

So he made his way to where this person, probably a woman, lived at the Staff Quarters.  He didn't want o go there but he had no other choices. He was in real trouble.



Now what I truly cant understand is why some of the posters on here are so adamant that he didn't go there.  Why would that be? 

Are they afraid that it points to OC staff involvement?  Why should that worry them?



There has to be a reason why some posters are so adamant that he didn't go there ?  What is it to them ?

For evcrything that is done there is always a reason.  Things dont just happen


So why are some posters on here are so adament that he did NOT go there?  What is it to them ? .... Hmmm ?  >@@(*&)


... And after all it is only a theory, but one that ticks ALL the boxes.  >@@(*&)

As so many people have said, Sadie, it just sounds like far too risky a place. If he did go there, there were apparently no witnesses to the fact. How likely could that have been?

And if telephoning, why not phone for a car to pick him up there? Why go to the 'safe house' of the SQ, if that is what it was, only to leave again on foot? It does not make sense. Yes, something could have gone wrong with the driver at 5A, but this could have been rectified by sending another car. If these people are 'professional' abductors, surely they would have had more than one car between them at their disposal. Not to mention phones.

Regarding OC involvement, it is not so hard to believe that one, or even two people may have been involved. But a collusion involving a much larger number of people  - something that is inherent in the suggestion that bundleman went to SQ in the middle of the abduction - is not credible. People's loyalties change over the years, and there is no way that in the time that has elapsed since the disappearance that several people would have kept quiet.

Most of the OC workers were casually employed with no real loyalty to the company or anyone else, and would have been paid a minimum wage. What incentive would they have to collude in something like this in the first place?

[sadie]

As so many people have said, Sadie, it just sounds like far too risky a place. If he did go there, there were apparently no witnesses to the fact. How likely could that have been?


Regarding OC involvement, it is not so hard to believe that one, or even two people may have been involved. But a collusion involving a much larger number of people  - something that is inherent in the suggestion that bundleman went to SQ in the middle of the abduction - is not credible. People's loyalties change over the years, and there is no way that in the time that has elapsed since the disappearance that several people would have kept quiet.

Most of the OC workers were casually employed with no real loyalty to the company or anyone else, and would have been paid a minimum wage. What incentive would they have to collude in something like this in the first place?

Oh, I haven't seen others saying it would be too risky.   Perhaps they realise that Bundleman was in a real and fearful dilemma.  Between a rock and a hard face.

Perhaps they realise that most peeps in PdL go to bed really early, especially ones that have an early start.  Tis a sleepy place ... rather nice.

Most OC staff members appear to be PT peeps, long established residents from the Lagos area.  The Staff Quarters are big (two tennis courts IIRC).  It was probably almost empty .... and a pebble thrown at a window would soon alert the "lifter". 

It was in the lifters interest to take bundleman in.  She/he would also get into terrible trouble if bundleman were picked up carry a stolen Madeleine



Only my thoughts Sherlock.  They seem very different from yours.

[sadie]

sherlock

And if telephoning, why not phone for a car to pick him up there? Why go to the 'safe house' of the SQ, if that is what it was, only to leave again on foot? It does not make sense. Yes, something could have gone wrong with the driver at 5A, but this could have been rectified by sending another car. If these people are 'professional' abductors, surely they would have had more than one car between them at their disposal. Not to mention phones.

Phone a taxi? 
Phone a friend whilst carrying a stolen child?
Oh yeah ! 
And as I have said before, I dont think he was carrying a phone.


Why go to a "safe house" to leave again on foot?

Where would you go, Sherlock, if you had no-one to turn to except your accomplice, "the lifter",  and you were carrying a stolen child? 
Maybe there was nobody else willing to help; after all they knew that the abduction had been witnessed about 40 minutes before and the PJ / GNR might be around any second.   
Maybe a phone call was made and instructions were given ... if you want  your money then rendezvous at a certain place at a certian time ...
or a car will be coming to pick you up but not from outside The Staff Quarters .... make your way to .... xyz ... nobody around at this time of night !

You have a living child on your hands ... you are not a muderer, just a semi professional criminal ... you need the money.  No one to call on for help.  Your lifter was frightened to "death" and wanted rid of you from the Staff Quarters.

What would you do Sherlock?

This is only a theory remember, but put yourself in his boots. 
You are between a rock and a hard stone.  You desperately want the mega bucks.   Would you risk the walk thru 'deserted' back streets to a rendezvous of some sort?

What would you do?