So what are the various scenarios available to us?

[AnneGuedes]

Of course it's not hearsay - it is what the witness KM saw.  Corroberrated by a member of the hotel staff.

Benice, if you're not Mrs McCann, it is hearsay.
More, the only fingerprints on the window were Mrs McCann's.
Finally, look at the photograph made by the scientific police : this is how Amy saw the shutters.

[AnneGuedes]

Big problem with the Smith sighting compared to the Tanner one.  The man Martin Smith saw reminded him of Gerry McCann but Gerry didn't have long shoulder length hair similar to the man described by Tanner.  Thus the two couldn't have been the same man.

But John, the Smiths saw a blond medium-hued, not very light hair (like the hair of the little girl on the PDL playground), a very pale skin (odd, Madeleine wasn't properly "pale"), about 1m high (like the little girl on the PDL playground), about 4years old (Madeleine's age), in light coloured pyjamas, likely barefoot.
Of that description of the carried child, only the light coloured pyjamas and the bare feet match JT's description. Can one reasonably deduce from pyjamas it was the same child ? And, recklessly doing so, infer that the man with the hair longer on the neck and Mr McCann clumsycarryalike are the same man ?

[Mrs. B]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.

Oddly, I can't seem to find anything about testing for fingerprints on the OUTSIDE of the window, just the inside. (where Kate McCann's finger prints were found - quite naturally as she stayed there). The blinds seem to have been checked though & inadequate prints found.

[sadie]

Benice, if you're not Mrs McCann, it is hearsay.
More, the only fingerprints on the window were Mrs McCann's.
Finally, look at the photograph made by the scientific police : this is how Amy saw the shutters.

That is a nonsense to start with.  Everyone messed with those shutters and windows.  Even Amy did.  See her statement.

[AnneGuedes]

How do you know KM DID open the window and play with the shutters?  And why would she do that?

My vision is irrelevant, Jane Tanner saw what she saw - and there was need for her to lie about it. 

I presume you meant "there was no need.." or ?
Mrs McCann didn't report having played with the shutters and window, she even said she never touched them during that week (planted fingerprints perhaps ?), but Mr McCann, though he broke shutters the first day (according to Mrs McCann), insisted in experimenting whether they could be opened from the outside whereas the TP6 were running around like headless chicken.

[AnneGuedes]

Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.

Are you suggesting the open shutters/window wasn't a red herring after all, but the way the perpetrator got in ?

[sadie]

I presume you meant "there was no need.." or ?
Mrs McCann didn't report having played with the shutters and window, she even said she never touched them during that week (planted fingerprints perhaps ?), but Mr McCann, though he broke shutters the first day (according to Mrs McCann), insisted in experimenting whether they could be opened from the outside whereas the TP6 were running around like headless chicken.

So if Dr Gerry Mccann (he is a doctor after all ... not a plain Mr ... not a surgeon) was messing around with the shutters etc outside., that is further proof that Kates finger print was NOT a solitary finger print outside.

Time for you guys to get your thinking caps on.

Additionally Mrs b's point

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.

Oddly, I can't seem to find anything about testing for fingerprints on the OUTSIDE of the window, just the inside. (where Kate McCann's finger prints were found - quite naturally as she stayed there). The blinds seem to have been checked though & inadequate prints found.

[John]

Are you suggesting the open shutters/window wasn't a red herring after all, but the way the perpetrator got in ?

Question is...how did an abductor know which bedroom the children were in?

[sadie]

Are you suggesting the open shutters/window wasn't a red herring after all, but the way the perpetrator got in ?

Pat Brown rubbish again.  Entrance and exit was by the front door, which was so recesssed and tucked away out of sight as to be almost invisible from any direction.   Very very dark in that recesseed out of the way spot.  The obvious entrance and exit.

Virtually 100% certainty that this was the way in and out. 

The only reason to keep drumming for the window is that a key had to be used on the front door.  Therefore someone from OC, or with some contact to OC, was involved ... and that goes against the Official Party Line! <<< Amarals blurb 

Remember, the burglaries in OC including Mrs Fenns above 5A ? 
Entrance was thru front doors but no damage to the doors, therefore a key was used.

Edited spellings

[AnneGuedes]

Question is...how did an abductor know which bedroom the children were in?

Didn't he make a rehearsal the night before ? Without passing through the window or closing everything behind him, Shutterman..

[icabodcrane]

Question is...how did an abductor know which bedroom the children were in?

That's a simple,  but very good,  question

Originally the cots were in the other  bedroom  ( overlooking the pool and tapas bar area ),  but Kate and Gerry decided they wanted that one for themselves  ...  so moved the cots into the  other bedroom  (  that overlooked the car park  ) 

[AnneGuedes]

The T/O'B did the same.
One witness (from the OC staff) was amazed, since sudden sound and light would have been noticed much better. Besides each room had two beds, no double bed.

[icabodcrane]

The T/O'B did the same.
One witness (from the OC staff) was amazed, since sudden sound and light would have been noticed much better. Besides each room had two beds, no double bed.

That's right Anne

There was no reason for the McCanns to take the cots out of the bedroom they were orginally in  (  the one that could be seen from the tapas bar  )  because both  bedrooms had single beds

The McCanns took the cots out of the bedroom that could be seen from the tapas bar and pushed the single beds together to make a double  ...  they could have pushed the two single beds in the other room together and not have to have moved the cots at all   (  and,  crucially,  they could have viewed the children's  bedroom from the tapas bar  )

[AnneGuedes]

The McCanns took the cots out of the bedroom that could be seen from the tapas bar and pushed the single beds together to make a double  ...  they could have pushed the two single beds in the other room together and not have to have moved the cots at all   (  and,  crucially,  they could have viewed the children's  bedroom from the tapas bar  )

Yes, but.. The south bedroom was nicer and, in fact, the twins in the bottom of their cots couldn't appreciate the bedroom.
I always thought that Madeleine was allowed to get asleep in her parents' bedroom. Why ? Because she was going to bed half an hour or so before her siblings in the UK, as she was the oldest, a prerogative likely important for her. I find it hard to believe she would accept to be sent to bed at the same time and in the same way than her siblings.
This would explain why her bed seemed prepared for her, not slept in.

[Benice]

Big problem with the Smith sighting compared to the Tanner one.  The man Martin Smith saw reminded him of Gerry McCann but Gerry didn't have long shoulder length hair similar to the man described by Tanner.  Thus the two couldn't have been the same man.

JT didn't say the man had shoulder length hair.  If she thought that she would have said so as 'shoulder length' is a common phrase which we would all use.    She was trying to emphasize that the man's hair was thick right down to where it ended at his neck as opposed to being layered into the nape of his neck.   Each hair being the same length from the crown of his head to where it met his neck.

It wasn't Gerry who reminded him of the man he saw, it was the way in which the child was being carried that was familiar to him and brought back a memory.   Mr Smith must have previously seen many pictures/clips of Gerry, but they hadn't reminded him -  it was only when he saw him carrying Sean down the airplane steps in the same way he saw the man carrying a child that he made a connection.

The similarities between the two independent descriptions of the man are far too many IMO for it to be two different men.