Author Topic: The searching question about...SEARCHING?  (Read 23663 times)

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Offline Mrs. B

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2013, 04:51:36 PM »
We don't know that he was walking around.    When the Smiths saw him he could have just come out of hiding a couple of minutes previously and be heading to the shore -  so that Madeleine could  be taken away by boat.  I don't know why you aren't willing to even consider that?

Or a car, it could simply be that the meeting place & time was pre-arranged.

Offline John

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2013, 04:53:14 PM »
Suggesting the PJ officers were given sleeping pills ?

No Anne...suggesting the PJ weren't particularly interested in a report of another missing child after 11pm at night as evidenced by Señor Amarals total lack of urgency in visiting the scene.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2013, 04:57:02 PM »
Or a car, it could simply be that the meeting place & time was pre-arranged.

We know how difficult it is to negotiate parts of Praia da Luz by car given the existence of a particularly restrictive one-way system at the time.  Could it be that the abductor was forced to walk a distance because of this not expecting to encounter a group as large as the Smiths at that time of night?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Redblossom

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Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2013, 04:59:33 PM »
No Anne...suggesting the PJ weren't particularly interested in a report of another missing child after 11pm at night as evidenced by Señor Amarals total lack of urgency in visiting the scene.

Do the heads of investigations always visit scenes themselves?

The PJ btw were not informed until midnight, about an hour after the local GNR police came to the scene and looking for what they believed was a wandering child

It is untrue he didnt have a sense of urgency, here is an extract from his book


ANNOUNCEMENT OF A DISAPPEARANCE: THE FIRST SEVENTY-TWO HOURS

On this evening, May 3rd 2007, I decide to dine at the Carvi Brasserie, in the centre of Portimão, before going home. I have been living for a year in this town, where I lead the Department of Criminal Investigation of the police judiciaire. In 1982, when I was 23 and I had just taken up this career, I had already gone there. There, I had made the acquaintance of someone who was to become my friend, Manuel João. Former local official and sporty, a charismatic person. He always lent a hand to members of the police judiciaire who went to the town for the purposes of an investigation. As an elected local official, he originated the creation of a police judiciaire department in Portimão. Thus, that evening, while savouring fruits de mer, we discuss the problems of Portuguese society.

It is midnight when I receive the news about the disappearance of a little four-year-old English girl. The police officer on call was informed about it by the National Guard of The Republic (GNR) At the time of her disappearance, the little girl was supposed to have been sleeping in an apartment while her parents were dining a hundred metres away. An inspector is sent to the scene immediately to establish the initial facts. A forensic expert assigned to security of the premises will join him. All precautions are taken to preserve possible clues and elements of evidence. I demand to be informed very regularly and, before going home, I call on the police on duty to check that all urgent measures are underway. The head of the Guard has already alerted the police authorities at Faro airport and the control post set up on the Guadiana* bridge.

(*The river on the frontier between Portugal and Spain.)

THE REPORTS LEAVE A LOT TO BE DESIRED

The examination of the premises by the investigator and the representative of the forensic police just after the announcement of the disappearance turns out to be quite unproductive. A concise report, where their observations are written up, is accompanied by numerous photographs taken inside and outside apartment 5A - which don't give an account of, according to us, everything they could have observed. This error is explained by the absence of procedures in case of a child's disappearance, notably concerning the actions to be taken when examining the scene.

Lots of people were already in place; however, nobody appeared in the photos. We don't know, for example, how they were dressed. Such observations can turn out to be important later on. The report mentions that the twins were asleep in their bed, but there is no proof to confirm it; on the contrary, in the photographs, you can see empty cots, where only the mattresses remain - the sheets and blankets having been removed. Why have their beds been stripped? If the sheets had not been removed, traces of their presence could have been found there.

That evening, on arriving home, I see Inès, my younger daughter, who is sleeping close to my wife, Sofia. In silence, in the dim light of the bedroom, I sit on the edge of the bed. Outside, far from her mother's warmth, a child of the same age is lost. Sofia wakes up and asks me what is happening. I tell her about Madeleine's disappearance and instinctively, she holds our daughter tightly in her arms and makes room for me.

I make lots of phone calls and send a text message to the director of the Faro Department of Criminal Investigation (DIC): child, English, aged 4, disappeared from a Praia da Luz hotel. It's sufficient. Reading the message, he will understand the gravity of the situation. Three years before, we had dealt with a similar case, a few kilometres from Praia da Luz. We had not been informed at the time of that disappearance, and we are convinced that if the investigation could have been started immediately we would have been able to discover some physical evidence. The police response is fundamental. The first 72 hours are essential.

Redblossom

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Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
We know how difficult it is to negotiate parts of Praia da Luz by car given the existence of a particularly restrictive one-way system at the time.  Could it be that the abductor was forced to walk a distance because of this not expecting to encounter a group as large as the Smiths at that time of night?

Oh come on John, the abductor didnt use a car because of road difficulties? but decided to stroll around to be seen? OK, lol so the abductor was scared of being nicked for breaking driving laws, as if, in a quiet sleepy village with no police, but wasnt scared of being spotted! Back later
 @)(++(*


Offline John

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2013, 05:29:06 PM »
You have taken 2 and 2 and come up with 3.5 Redblossom.  The PJ would have been informed more or less immediately when it involved a crime of this nature.  Amaral claims he wasn't told until midnight, not surprising since they had to find him first.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline DCI

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Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2013, 05:29:50 PM »
Do the heads of investigations always visit scenes themselves?

The PJ btw were not informed until midnight, about an hour after the local GNR police came to the scene and looking for what they believed was a wandering child

Thats the GNR's fault, not the McCann's. More incompetence!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 05:31:47 PM by DCI »
Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

https://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/

Offline John

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2013, 05:32:12 PM »
Oh come on John, the abductor didnt use a car because of road difficulties? but decided to stroll around to be seen? OK, lol so the abductor was scared of being nicked for breaking driving laws, as if, in a quiet sleepy village with no police, but wasnt scared of being spotted! Back later
 @)(++(*

Again you have missed the point.  I didn't say he didn't use a car, I said he was forced to walk a distance ie.. he was forced to end his journey on foot or make a very long detour.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 05:34:09 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2013, 05:51:59 PM »
Again you have missed the point.  I didn't say he didn't use a car, I said he was forced to walk a distance ie.. he was forced to end his journey on foot or make a very long detour.

There was a car park directly behind 5a. Why would an abductor risk being caught by hauling Madeleine half way across town ?  We are lead to believe he had already been seen by Tanner, why would he risk it again ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Benice

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2013, 06:11:47 PM »
There was a car park directly behind 5a. Why would an abductor risk being caught by hauling Madeleine half way across town ?  We are lead to believe he had already been seen by Tanner, why would he risk it again ?

But he didn't know in advance he was going to be seen by JT.   Maybe because she arrived on the scene he panicked and diverted from the original plan.  For all he knew she might have been going to check on Madeleine and the twins.     Who knows?
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline John

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2013, 08:08:39 PM »
I have opposing views as to whether Smith man and Tanner man were the same.  On the one hand it was strange that the individual seen by the Smiths never came forward if it was an innocent sighting but on the other hand if this man was seen by Tanner at 9.15pm ish and then just after 10pm by the Smiths, where was he for 45+ minutes and what was he waiting for?  And mores to the point, had it been Madeleine she should have woken up as it was such a cold night.

Back on topic.  All this searching around the town and the beach seemed a bit OTT for a nearly 4 year old.  What made anyone think she would have even left the resort grounds on such a dark cold night?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 08:19:56 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2013, 01:37:44 AM »
I have opposing views as to whether Smith man and Tanner man were the same.  On the one hand it was strange that the individual seen by the Smiths never came forward if it was an innocent sighting but on the other hand if this man was seen by Tanner at 9.15pm ish and then just after 10pm by the Smiths, where was he for 45+ minutes and what was he waiting for?  And mores to the point, had it been Madeleine she should have woken up as it was such a cold night.

Back on topic.  All this searching around the town and the beach seemed a bit OTT for a nearly 4 year old.  What made anyone think she would have even left the resort grounds on such a dark cold night?
I agree

Very strange that neither man came forward

Also Very strange that neither man was walking from a creche to anywhere.  There was NO crech in the direction either man was walking from. 

Both men were coming from a place that was little inhabited. unless,

1)  in the case of bundleman,
unless he had walked 240 yards from the Estrella apartments [or a couple of isolated houses] he was coming from the OC apartments themselves. 
No other place he could have come from

2)  in the case of the Smiths man,
Unless he had come over 200 yards (to Aoifes sighting), again from the Estrella apartments ...  the only place that he could have come from was about 50 metres up the road (Rua da Escola) from the front person in the Smiths group, Peter Smith ...and that was the staff quarters
No other place he could have come from.
Seems a scream was heard coming from there. 8(8-))

I think he called in at the staff quarters.

I think that when the pick up failed (see sadies Theory), in desperation, he found his way to the Staff quarters to where the lifter lived.  It is quite possible that there he phoned for advice   It is unlikely, but not impossible that at that stage,  a change over occurred in the carriers

Only my thoughts, but the fact that there was nowhere really for the man to have come from, in either case, is a strong indicator
that bundleman came from OC.

and that The Smiths man came from the staff Quarters.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2013, 01:59:58 PM »
I agree

Very strange that neither man came forward

Also Very strange that neither man was walking from a creche to anywhere.  There was NO crech in the direction either man was walking from. 

Both men were coming from a place that was little inhabited. unless,

1)  in the case of bundleman,
unless he had walked 240 yards from the Estrella apartments [or a couple of isolated houses] he was coming from the OC apartments themselves. 
No other place he could have come from

2)  in the case of the Smiths man,
Unless he had come over 200 yards (to Aoifes sighting), again from the Estrella apartments ...  the only place that he could have come from was about 50 metres up the road (Rua da Escola) from the front person in the Smiths group, Peter Smith ...and that was the staff quarters
No other place he could have come from.
Seems a scream was heard coming from there. 8(8-))

I think he called in at the staff quarters.

I think that when the pick up failed (see sadies Theory), in desperation, he found his way to the Staff quarters to where the lifter lived.  It is quite possible that there he phoned for advice   It is unlikely, but not impossible that at that stage,  a change over occurred in the carriers

Only my thoughts, but the fact that there was nowhere really for the man to have come from, in either case, is a strong indicator
that bundleman came from OC.

and that The Smiths man came from the staff Quarters.


You have mentioned a scream a couple of times one sadie but so far I have not seen any evidence there even was a scream. Where did you get this information from ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2013, 02:34:41 AM »
It was on the 3A's forum, now gone.

Others will have seen it ... but whether any [ censored word] will admit it ... is another matter.  Maybe a pro on here saw it?  If they did, it would be good if they would confirm.

I was never on 3A's but liked some of the research done.  Most especially about the boats in Lagos harbour.  Was very interested in the boat that left the gated harbour just before gate lock up time.  It then parked up in the long entrance channel to the harbour.  The boat had links to someone that the PJ showed interest in, IIRC.

There was also good local knowledge with, ?was it harmony? happy to get on her bike and go look at what ever.  That was good.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The searching question about...SEARCHING?
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2013, 07:41:34 AM »
It was on the 3A's forum, now gone.

Others will have seen it ... but whether any [ censored word] will admit it ... is another matter.  Maybe a pro on here saw it?  If they did, it would be good if they would confirm.

I was never on 3A's but liked some of the research done.  Most especially about the boats in Lagos harbour.  Was very interested in the boat that left the gated harbour just before gate lock up time.  It then parked up in the long entrance channel to the harbour.  The boat had links to someone that the PJ showed interest in, IIRC.

There was also good local knowledge with, ?was it harmony? happy to get on her bike and go look at what ever.  That was good.

You can't ask for  others to confirm what you  claim   ...  you must confirm it yourself


If you can't ,  then  stop making the claims