THE FRONT DOOR - WAY IN AND WAY OUT for abductor

[Benice]

Then why iyo didn't he listen at the window ? Wasn't he in a hurry to eat his food ? What was the point iyo to go inside the flat if listening was enough ?
There's no logical answer, Benice, don't lose time finding one. And the trouble is this is not the only weird detail of those statements...

He went inside because he had offered to do Kate's check for her and that's how she did her check.  It was sorted before he left the table that he would be going inside - in the same way Kate would have done if she had gone.    How anyone can read anything weird or strange into something so simple and straightforward is a mystery to me. 

[AnneGuedes]

Your knowledge about "what the McCann would have done" is a mystery. There's nothing like an inside request in any of the group's statements to the police. As a matter of fact Mr McCann said in a documentary he wouldn't have looked inside of the bedroom if the door hadn't been wide open and Mrs McCann, in another documentary, says she would have left, all quiet, if the door hadn't been wide open.

[Benice]

Your knowledge about "what the McCann would have done" is a mystery. There's nothing like an inside request in any of the group's statements to the police.

Quote from Matthew Oldfield's rogatory statement - re the check.

"Erm, so I went to check on G**** and I stood up and Russell stood up and said he was going to go and check as well and Kate stood up and I said, you know, do you want us to go and check on, erm, do you want me to go and check on your kids, erm, and she said yes. And I think I offered at that point just because we had been together all week and we had similar routines and it just kind of seemed like a nice thing to do that would save her a journey back up and, you know, it may or it may not have been different. But, erm, I said that and she said yeah fine and she said that the patio door was open and go in through there

[AnneGuedes]

One year later ! Who will believe that ? None of them mentioned it to the PJ in their first and second statements. And :
The "way Mrs McCann would have done" was 1) the shortest way (but for Mr Oldfield the longest) and 2) just listening (which Mr Oldfield did).
No logic in this.

[Benice]

One year later ! Who will believe that ? None of them mentioned it to the PJ in their first and second statements. And :
The "way Mrs McCann would have done" was 1) the shortest way (but for Mr Oldfield the longest) and 2) just listening (which Mr Oldfield did).
No logic in this.

I presume the reason they didn't mention it was because they weren't asked about it.  Why would that question be asked when it is a foregone conclusion to any sensible person that Kate would have told him that the patio door was unlocked when she was accepting his offer to do her check for her.

 I'm pretty sure that if Matthew had offered to check just by listening at the window Kate would probably have said... 'No it's OK - I'll go myself..' because the McCann's way of checking was to go into the apartment.    Even after Matthew had listened at the window earlier and told the McCanns all was quiet -  Gerry still went to do his check from inside the apartment  - just a few minutes later - for the same reason.

[AnneGuedes]

Are you Mrs McCann, Benice, always sure of what she would think, say, advise, do, hear, etc.
The fact is they used the risky but shorter way to just listen : both McCanns say they had a look thanks to an open door (and in her case thanks to the wind) !
The 9:30 check would seem just highly illogical if it didn't interestingly show how Mr Oldfield was manipulated.

[Albertini]

Brilliant Heri.

so we only have a field of vision of 120*. 

When looking the way we are walking, only 60* visibility on either side.

My screen is extra wide so I cannot accurately measure angles, so I am going to take a print off and get a protractor on that  ... measure the angles that way


What would we do without our resident expert?  Well done Heri

The problem with thos pictures is that you are presuming you go from the door of each by teleportation across the car park to the road.

You are also presuming that people do not move their heads when they walk.

That isn't the case.

As you walk across the car park the angle of the window to 5A opens up so that as you are walking into and out of the car park the window is in view.

This is particularly relevant to Matt Oldfield. He went to the next apartment and i find it impossible to believe when walking to his own apartment next door he did not look at the shutters of 5A.

What adds to the impossibility is the fact that white walls and shutters provide a constant contrast, which would be broken and noticeable if the shutters were, as descibed, "fully up". The black contrast from the bedroom and the white frame contrast of the exposed windows against that blackness from the window would be hugely noticeable and draw ones attention to that contrast.

Further to that as they were checking each others apartment it is impossible to believe they did not glance over to the windows and shutters. After all we are led to believe a few minutes earlier Matt did a visual check at the shutters.

It is also impossible to believe that after going to his apartment and walking past the shutter at 5A and then performing the room check (which coincidentally he did not see Madeleine) and noticing there was more light in the room this did not prompt him, subconciously, to recall what he had seen a few minutes earlier on his walk past the shutters of 5A.

It stretchs credibility.

[Redblossom]

It stretchs credibility.
***
Of  course it does Albertini.  Along with many many other examples (far worse ones). That anyone can assert that every person at all times  looked straight ahead and never moved their heads or eyes or wouldnt have noticed flapping curtains or the changed contrast as you say, is very presumptious. Of course, they may have looked and seen NOTHING different! lets face it, if there was an abduction, there is absolutely no proof it happened at 9.15 and not, e.g. 9.45

[Benice]

Are you Mrs McCann, Benice, always sure of what she would think, say, advise, do, hear, etc.
The fact is they used the risky but shorter way to just listen : both McCanns say they had a look thanks to an open door (and in her case thanks to the wind) !
The 9:30 check would seem just highly illogical if it didn't interestingly show how Mr Oldfield was manipulated.

No I'm not Anne.   It's simply a matter of common sense IMO.

I'm not sure how Matthew Oldfield offering to do Kate's check for her unprompted  - is HIM being manipulated.

[sadie]

Sadie

Point P is where the steps are to get down to the passage to then get to the main entrance lobby?

Sorry Carana.  Been busy and only just picked this up.

Sorry but I never stepped inside OC building to check that.  I walked the walled path and looked at the window and door, but never touched anything. 

Stairs are expensive things to build and it is my guess that one set of steps would have serviced as many flats as possible.  I had always thought that they went up from the lobby, but not sure.  Heri might know.

[Angelo222]

An interesting observation Albertini.  Question is, when Matt did the first check at 9pm did he walk along the walkway or just listen from the other side of the wall which I suspect is the case?

Why did GM feel the need to recheck the children a mere minutes later?

[AnneGuedes]

An interesting observation Albertini.  Question is, when Matt did the first check at 9pm did he walk along the walkway or just listen from the other side of the wall which I suspect is the case?

Why did GM feel the need to recheck the children a mere minutes later?

I suspect this as well. After all Mr O'Brian didn't have to stick his ear on the shutter to hear his daughter.
I reckon that in statements, among the sense organs, there's a tendency to privilege the eye in relation to the ear. We use our ears a lot, to cross a street for instance. And, though our nose has limited capacities, we use it (yesterday I smelt the smoke before actually seeing it). In the quietness of the night Mr Oldfield and Mr O'Brian would have heard the flapping of the curtain if they, by chance, had missed its movement.
This would have been interesting to reconstruct. At what point in the parking would you hear a child crying and what are the chances to determine from where the crying comes.

[sadie]

An interesting observation Albertini.  Question is, when Matt did the first check at 9pm did he walk along the walkway or just listen from the other side of the wall which I suspect is the case?

Why did GM feel the need to recheck the children a mere minutes later?

Because he wasn't happy with just an ear to a shutter.  The recognised time tried practice of many hotels and holiday camps was not sufficient for Gerry.  He immediately got up from the table  and checked properly; he went into the bedroom and made a visual check.   

Matt must have realised this.  He may have felt Gerry was not pleased.  He may have felt criticized when Gerry immediately got up and rechecked.    ... and the next time, he made sure he went in and visually checked .... unhappily not Madeleine.

[DCI]

An interesting observation Albertini.  Question is, when Matt did the first check at 9pm did he walk along the walkway or just listen from the other side of the wall which I suspect is the case?

Why did GM feel the need to recheck the children a mere minutes later?

That around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments. Notably to the area near the windows of all the children's bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping. That all the children's bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the bedroom occupied by Madeleine."
. That after this check, he returned to the restaurant, saying that all the children were asleep. However, Gerry, Madeleine's father, went to the area of the apartments to check for himself if the children were asleep. That Gerry would have entered  into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was left open [ajar]. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant.

In answer to a question from the inspector, the interviewee says that Gerry will have gone to check at that time because he will not have heard the witness say that he had been there.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

[sadie]

Why did Matt go in apartment 5A at his visit after Gerry, at about 9.35 (IIRC)?

Two reasons at least


1.   

He went inside because he had offered to do Kate's check for her and that's how she did her check.  It was sorted before he left the table that he would be going inside - in the same way Kate would have done if she had gone.    How anyone can read anything weird or strange into something so simple and straightforward is a mystery to me.

2. 

Because he wasn't happy with just an ear to a shutter.  The recognised time tried practice of many hotels and holiday camps was not sufficient for Gerry.  He immediately got up from the table  and checked properly; he went into the bedroom and made a visual check.   

Matt must have realised this.  He may have felt Gerry was not pleased.  He may have felt criticized when Gerry immediately got up and rechecked.    ... and the next time, he made sure he went in and visually checked .... unhappily not Madeleine.