So if the abduction occurred at 9.15pm lets look at the movements.

[faithlilly]

He didn't, unless Anne can give us a link to where he say's that, its just another bit of disimformation.

Kate says it in Madeleine :

'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio doors and noticed almost immediately that the children’s bedroom door was further ajar than it had been. He glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there, as she was prone to do if ever she woke in the small hours. Seeing no little body curled up in our bed, he went over to look in on the children.

Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we’d left her. For Gerry, this became one of those images I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, She’s so beautiful. After pulling the bedroom door to, restoring it to its original angle, he went to the bathroom before leaving the apartment.'

I think you owe Anne an apology DCI.

[AnneGuedes]

The tales are very convoluted. Kate Mccann speaking to the British public in her documentary Madeleine was Here, said, on her check at 10  the door was more open than we had left it, well, hang on, did she mean how they had left  it at 8.30? at 9 after Gerrys check? Or how Matt left it? Matt never  touched the wide open door,neither did he tell Kate after his 9.30 check anything about the door angle, so how could she say it was more open than she/GM had left it! If she didnt know if Matt had left it like that?

Yes, this is why, thanks to forums I suppose, in a later version of the discovery she introduces the idea that Mr Oldfield could have left that door open...
This is like story tellers, they need a responsive audience to go on with their story.

[DCI]

Kate says it in Madeleine :

'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio doors and noticed almost immediately that the children’s bedroom door was further ajar than it had been. He glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there, as she was prone to do if ever she woke in the small hours. Seeing no little body curled up in our bed, he went over to look in on the children.

Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we’d left her. For Gerry, this became one of those images I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, She’s so beautiful. After pulling the bedroom door to, restoring it to its original angle, he went to the bathroom before leaving the apartment.'

I think you owe Anne an apology DCI.

For what?

Anne didn't say it was Kate. Or mention Kates book!

Don't neglect a little devilish detail, John, Mr McCann said he looked for Madeleine only because the door was more opened than they left it. He looked first for her in his bedroom, then seeing her in her own bed he forgot about the door.
So it seems actually it wasn't Mr McCann who disturbed the abductor, but the abductor who disturbed Mr McCann, his 6th sense at least.

[Albertini]

Yes, this is why, thanks to forums I suppose, in a later version of the discovery she introduces the idea that Mr Oldfield could have left that door open...
This is like story tellers, they need a responsive audience to go on with their story.

It is amazing how their memory has got better over time so that Kate says in her book several years later something that Gerry did not say in his witness statement the day after!

"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time, especially when (s)he has a book to sell," - Laurie Levenson, a professor at the Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

[AnneGuedes]

Kate says it in Madeleine :

'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio doors and noticed almost immediately that the children’s bedroom door was further ajar than it had been. He glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there, as she was prone to do if ever she woke in the small hours. Seeing no little body curled up in our bed, he went over to look in on the children.

Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we’d left her. For Gerry, this became one of those images I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, She’s so beautiful. After pulling the bedroom door to, restoring it to its original angle, he went to the bathroom before leaving the apartment.'

I think you owe Anne an apology DCI.

Many thanks Faithlilly, I spent three hours doubting of my memory ! I looked in all statements and in some documentaries, I was so sure I had read that somewhere and Icabodcrane had mentioned it recently...

[faithlilly]

For what?

Anne didn't say it was Kate. Or mention Kates book!

Gerry went to his and Kate's room to look for Madeleine, that is the point, a point already made by Anne.

[DCI]

Many thanks Faithlilly, I spent three hours doubting of my memory ! I looked in all statements and in some documentaries, I was so sure I had read that somewhere and Icabodcrane had mentioned it recently...

As usual, move the goal posts, to suit 

So now what Kate said in her book can be used, but not what Amaral say's in his.
Here's me thinking we were discussing Statements, from where you said Gerry went in the bedroom.

Where did Kate say Gerry went in to their bedroom?

[DCI]

Like this point, already made by Anne.

In fact Mr McCann doesn't, you're right, at least in his statements. He first thinks Madeleine might be in his bedroom, before entering Madeleine's bedroom.
Perhaps a confusion with Mrs McCann who does first go to her bedroom in one of her discovery reports.

[AnneGuedes]

Are you an expert on sedatives Anne?

If there were two of them one could go off with Madeleine and the other go off with the 'equipment'.

As I say, I know next to nothing about sedatives  - but what about an injection?  Is that impossible?

An injection is possible, but only the intravenous one would start to act after 3 minutes. And apnoea can occur. I don't think it's used on a child (intra rectal is the most efficient and quick), veins are very small. Was the abductor a nurse ?

[faithlilly]

As usual, move the goal posts, to suit 

So now what Kate said in her book can be used, but not what Amaral say's in his.
Here's me thinking we were discussing Statements, from where you said Gerry went in the bedroom.

Where did Kate say Gerry went in to their bedroom?

According to you Amaral is a liar and perjurer and his words should be approached with caution, whereas Kate is truth incarnate and her every utterance should be believed, so what are you griping about ?

Surely you don't think Kate has been less than truthful in her book !

[Benice]

According to you Amaral is a liar and perjurer and his words should be approached with caution, whereas Kate is truth incarnate and her every utterance should be believed, so what are you griping about ?

Surely you don't think Kate has been less than truthful in her book !

Errm no  - according to the Portuguese courts Amaral is a liar and perjurer.

One thing we can be sure of with Kate's book is that it will have been scrutinised by lawyers before it was published to make sure there was nothing in it that Kate was claiming to be a fact, which could be proved not to be.    Also to ensure that there was nothing that could be construed as libellous.

IMO That is why it is such a reliable reference source - as well as being a best seller in it's own right and also of course - why Amaral cannot sue her for libel.

[faithlilly]

Errm no  - according to the Portuguese courts Amaral is a liar and perjurer.

One thing we can be sure of with Kate's book is that it will have been scrutinised by lawyers before it was published to make sure there was nothing in it that Kate was claiming to be a fact, which could be proved not to be.    Also to ensure that there was nothing that could be construed as libellous.

IMO That is why it is such a reliable reference source - as well as being a best seller in it's own right and also of course - why Amaral cannot sue her for libel.

Kate claimed as fact that cadaver odour lasts no more than thirty days, a blatant untruth and one that seems to have slipped by the censors.

As to Amaral not being able to sue Kate that's because, as you yourself have pointed out, lawyers had gone though it with a fine toothed comb before publication  and anything libellous would have been taken out. Also you seem to be confusing truthful with non-libellous. They are not the same thing.

Can I also point out that Amaral's book was also a best seller all over Europe, even before the ban, outselling Madeleine in several countries , and quite possibly would have been a best seller here too.

[AnneGuedes]

quite possibly would have been a best seller here too.

Likely, but the climate of terror prevailed !

[Redblossom]

One thing we can be sure of with Kate's book is that it will have been scrutinised by lawyers before it was published to make sure there was nothing in it that Kate was claiming to be a fact, which could be proved not to be.    Also to ensure that there was nothing that could be construed as libellous.

IMO That is why it is such a reliable reference source - as well as being a best seller in it's own right and also of course - why Amaral cannot sue her for libel.

LOL, even if lawyers DID check it before  publication, do you know that they did? There is no way in a month of Sundays  that they would check if everything she wrote was factual!!Hello? How would they bloody know unless they spent thousands on thousands of hours poring over every single bit of the case ? Do you know that would cost millions and millions? It is a fact that not everying she wrote was factual or truthful. The only thing they conceivably may have done is check for libel. Thats it. And she sailed close to the boat on that one too.

Oh and ps that her book was a best seller is no testament or evidence  to it being truthful!
 

get a grip

[AnneGuedes]

according to the Portuguese courts Amaral is a liar and perjurer.

You make an unacceptable confusion between what somebody is and what somebody does, Benice. You certainly already lied once or thrice or more, everybody does, does that make you a liar ? No, but in this or that situation what you said was a lie.