Author Topic: The Tanner Sighting  (Read 7728 times)

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Offline faithlilly

The Tanner Sighting
« on: July 26, 2013, 01:01:57 AM »
Thank you to watcher of the Amazon forum for the post below which makes an excellent point.

In her statement of 4th May 2007, Jane Tanner, when asked to describe the child she saw, said the following:

`'(**) Concerning the child, who seemed to be asleep, she only saw the legs. The child seemed to be older than a baby. The child was barefoot, dressed in cotton light-coloured pyjamas (possibly pink or white) She is not sure, but has the feeling that she saw a design on the pyjamas like flowers, but is not certain about it.''

When questioned again on 10th May 2007, she was again asked about the child she saw. She said :

`'About the description of the child, she confirmed that it was being carried in his arms, with the legs in her direction and barefoot. She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her). She never saw the hair of the child. She never saw it move nor make any sound, thinking that it was asleep.''

On the 8th April 2008, Jane Tanner was interviewed by an officer from Leicestershire Police on behalf of the Portuguese authorities. She was again asked about what she saw. This is what she said:

`'....................4078 "And then think about the child again, as much as you can see of that child in that
split second, and tell me what you saw?"

Reply "Well, again, I mean, and this is, I think initially I couldn't really bring, I could only
really remember the feet. But the day after, when we had, they, at the interview, the
person that was interviewing was really pushing me to try and, you know, remember
any more details, and the one thing that I could really think was, erm, a turn-up of
some description. And I don't know whether this made it into my statement, but
there was, and this is the thing that convinces me it was her, there was, erm, sort of
the pyjamas were, there was some sort of, I thought it was a turn-up, but some sort of
design on the bottom of the pyjamas. And I did say it in my first statement and in my
second statement I can remember saying it again and, erm, the translator in there,
because I said `I don't know whether this made it into my first statement or not', but
the translator sort of went `Oh yes, I can remember you going like this', because I
was moving my hands up, but I was sort of talking about something at the bottom of
the pyjamas. Because, from my own point of view, and I think, you know, `Oh was I
trying to', I can think that I would think `Oh maybe a little girl would be wearing
pink pyjamas', so, you know, if you were subconsciously putting things in your head,
I can think pink pyjamas, yes, but I wouldn't think of some detail around the bottom
of the pyjamas as a specific thing to, to mention".

00.36.39 4078 "And when you noticed the detail was it in any colour?"

Reply "I don't, I didn't know, I thought there was sort of a pink flowery bit on, bit on it, but,
no, I mean, the actual frill itself or turn-up, as I thought it was, I couldn't think of the
colour, but I thought there was pink sort of flowery and sort of like liney bits on the
bottom, so".

4078 "And, overall, what colour would you say the pyjama bottoms were?"
Reply "Erm, I can't, I can't remember, I mean, I, I can't remember, well I can't remember
now, but I think they were sort of whitey but with this, with this pattern on, but then
some pink. That's, that's what I thought at the time. It's harder because now I know
what the pyjamas were so I can't"..........................''

So - at no point did Jane Tanner actually state that she identified the child at the time as a girl, and certainly not as Madeleine, although she later came to believe that she saw Madeleine. She is, though, in formal police interviews, fairly consistent about what she saw, which is in essence, fleeting, limited and confined to the legs only.

How, in that case, were the McCanns in a position to hand a document to the police on 10th May 2007 in which they claimed the following:

`' Description of Child:

- The child appeared to be a Caucasian girl about the ages of 3-4.
- She was seen to lie motionless/limp in the man's arms consistent with her sleeping or possibly drugged.
- She did not seem to be wrapped up well for the time of night wearing only pyjamas; the trousers were lightly coloured with a floral element, possibly with turn-ups. The top was not well seen though there was thought to be
another colour involved possibly pink.
- She was not wearing shoes. `'

*Jane Tanner did not claim in any of her interviews that she saw a girl.
*She never mentioned the race of the child, although clearly bare legs would indicate the colour of her skin.
*She certainly never speculated on the age of the child.
*She never described the top the child was wearing, and indeed stated quite clearly, in each interview, that she had only observed the legs.
*She did not mention any suspicion that the child had been drugged.

I feel this document was very revealing. It illustrates that Jane Tanner was misrepresented by the McCanns or the people surrounding them. Jane did not offer this level of detail, and was actually consistent in her interviews with the police. It seems that it was very important to the McCanns that the authorities believe the child Jane Tanner saw WAS Madeleine, regardless of the fact that Tanner could not and did not identify the child as such. Tanner also mentions that it was a common sight to see parents wandering home carrying a child, and expresses the wish that, secondary only to Madeleine being found, her most fervent hope was that someone would come forward and say `'That was me, carrying my child home''

Now personally I would want to be absolutely certain before sending people off on a wild goose chase, that what had been observed was the missing child being carried away. It does therefore call into question why someone in the McCann camp felt it appropriate to exaggerate the extent of what Jane Tanner saw, adding detail which appears specifically designed to cement the idea that the child observed was Madeleine

Also, an unprompted mention of the possibility of the child being drugged, apropos of absolutely nothing, is, to say the least, curious.

According to Kate McCann's version of events, she believed on the evening in question that the twins had been drugged. This is confirmed by the accounts of others who observed the children to be essentially unrousable and who witnessed Kate McCann apparently checking to see that they were still breathing, something which she also confirms.

Yet at this point there is no communication of these suspicions to the police, despite a week having passed. What we have is an insertion of the idea that the child being carried had been drugged - despite the fact that this was never, and has never, been claimed by the sole witness to this episode. It should also be noted that by this point, Kate McCann has had one, and Gerry McCann two interviews with the police. Yet not once has either of them brought up the matter of their suspicions that all the children were drugged - a matter which, as they simultaneously handed over a document in which they suggested that Madeleine had been drugged, one would have thought they might have mentioned
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Benice

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »
FGS Faith - The child JT saw could only be a boy or a girl.   Her recollection of the pajama bottoms inclined her to think they were girl's pajamas rather than a boys.   IMO That's a perfectly acceptable conclusion for her to arrive at.
Her opinion was corroborated by the Smiths who described a girl.

The following is from a statement from a UK Family Liaison Officer, about the questions the McCanns wanted the FL officers to take up with the PJ  on their behalf and which they wanted the PJ to respond to.   It's quite clear that the use of drugs was discussed with this officer (and the other FLOs who were also present)  and that the FL Officers would have communicated their concerns and query to the PJ.     The question re drugs was asked on the 5th May.

Relevant extract from the Statement by Jim McGarvey :-
-------------------------------

I am police Inspector McGarvey of the Leicestershire police force, currently based in the criminal unit.

In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation carried out into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of communication officer for the family.....................................

In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.......................................

Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 09:02:07 AM »
Faithlilly, I believe JT didn't claim the child was definitely Madeleine in her talk with Richard Bilton for Panorama either. It was Jeremy Vine, introducing the programme, who asserted that, not JT.

Offline Albertini

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 10:20:52 AM »
I don't understand how in the first interviews Gerry & Kate said Jane saw the man at 50 metres and that subsequently became 5 metres in later statements.

There is a big difference between 50 metres and 5 metres.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 11:15:08 AM »
FGS Faith - The child JT saw could only be a boy or a girl.   Her recollection of the pajama bottoms inclined her to think they were girl's pajamas rather than a boys.   IMO That's a perfectly acceptable conclusion for her to arrive at.
Her opinion was corroborated by the Smiths who described a girl.

The following is from a statement from a UK Family Liaison Officer, about the questions the McCanns wanted the FL officers to take up with the PJ  on their behalf and which they wanted the PJ to respond to.   It's quite clear that the use of drugs was discussed with this officer (and the other FLOs who were also present)  and that the FL Officers would have communicated their concerns and query to the PJ.     The question re drugs was asked on the 5th May.

Relevant extract from the Statement by Jim McGarvey :-
-------------------------------

I am police Inspector McGarvey of the Leicestershire police force, currently based in the criminal unit.

In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation carried out into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of communication officer for the family.....................................

In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.......................................

Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.

And what in Tanner's first two statements made Tanner believe it was a girl ? She wasn't sure of the colour and she certainly didn't mention any turn up or decoration on the bottom of the trousers. Her later claim that she had mentioned a turn-up but didn't know if it had 'gone in' is nonsense as she would have read and signed her statement as a true record of what she had said and if something as important as she later claimed the 'turn-up' to be hadn't appeared she would have mentioned it.

The McCanns only mentioned Madeleine on the 5th of May, not the twins, yet we now know she thought on the night of he third they may have been drugged. Why no mention of that to the FLO ? Why no complaint that Kate had voiced her concerns, if her book is to be believed, on the night of the 3rd, yet nothing had been done ? Why no request to have the twins tested as it may have shed some light on whether Madeleine had indeed been drugged ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline John

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 11:33:07 AM »
It appears quite clear from Jane's statements that all she saw was a Caucasian child older than a baby with bare feet wearing light coloured possibly pink pyjama bottoms with turn-ups.   Anything else is pure supposition and speculation.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 11:55:44 AM »
It appears quite clear from Jane's statements that all she saw was a Caucasian child older than a baby with bare feet wearing light coloured possibly pink pyjama bottoms with turn-ups.   Anything else is pure supposition and speculation.

No mention of a turn up in Tanner's statements until the rogatory interviews. The timeline, completed by all the holidaymakers, and handed in on the 10th of May, can not be considered as the McCanns had direct knowledge of the pyjamas.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 12:29:25 PM »
FGS Faith - The child JT saw could only be a boy or a girl.   Her recollection of the pajama bottoms inclined her to think they were girl's pajamas rather than a boys.   IMO That's a perfectly acceptable conclusion for her to arrive at.
Her opinion was corroborated by the Smiths who described a girl.

Err, no, sorry, you can't do that, pass off the Smiths sighting the same man and child as if it were a fact, which it isn't. So no, the Smiths did not corroborate anything.




Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 12:33:17 PM »
Faithlilly, I believe JT didn't claim the child was definitely Madeleine in her talk with Richard Bilton for Panorama either. It was Jeremy Vine, introducing the programme, who asserted that, not JT.

Jane Tanner never has claimed it was Madeleine, it is impossible that she could so from what she saw. The only people who claim it WAS Madeleine, rather than *believe* is Gerry Mccann in his own words and indirectly through the words of their documentary makers of Madeleine was Here, when they said Jane Tanner may not be  the only person to have seen Madeleine abducted. A blatant lie. And such a shame for a series called cutting edge, which prides itself on reporting cold hard facts
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:10:06 PM by Redblossom »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 12:34:12 PM »
Err, no, sorry, you can't do that, pass off the Smiths sighting the same man and child as if it were a fact, which it isn't. So no, the Smiths did not corroborate anything.
Yes, but Benice is doing exactly what the McCanns did : use the Smiths' sighting, when it was not possible to ignore it any more without raising suspicion, to corroborate the Tanner's sighting. Their "reconstruction" is extremely revealing about that. I wonder if Mr McCann is aware of this now...

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 12:34:58 PM »
I don't understand how in the first interviews Gerry & Kate said Jane saw the man at 50 metres and that subsequently became 5 metres in later statements.

There is a big difference between 50 metres and 5 metres.

If you look at the sketch Tanner made, it is in no way 5 or 50 metres, more like fifteen.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 12:38:54 PM »
Yes, but Benice is doing exactly what the McCanns did : use the Smiths' sighting, when it was not possible to ignore it any more without raising suspicion, to corroborate the Tanner's sighting. Their "reconstruction" is extremely revealing about that. I wonder if Mr McCann is aware of this now...

Yes,  the much professed sticking only to facts seems to wobble a little time to time!

The OP has shown how Tanners statements have been embellishedby 10 May, quite shocking really.


Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2013, 11:44:15 AM »
Jane Tanner never has claimed it was Madeleine, it is impossible that she could so from what she saw. The only people who claim it WAS Madeleine, rather than *believe* is Gerry Mccann in his own words and indirectly through the words of their documentary makers of Madeleine was Here, when they said Jane Tanner may not be  the only person to have seen Madeleine abducted. A blatant lie. And such a shame for a series called cutting edge, which prides itself on reporting cold hard facts

I agree, Redblossom. It definitely wasn't the Loach family's finest hour.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2013, 12:03:42 PM »
I agree, Redblossom. It definitely wasn't the Loach family's finest hour.

If the reconstruction was supposed to jog people's memories why was it so factually incorrect ?

Further as it wasn't factually correct why was the OFM pushing it as 'official' several weeks ago ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The Tanner Sighting
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2013, 02:18:48 PM »
If the reconstruction was supposed to jog people's memories why was it so factually incorrect ?

Further as it wasn't factually correct why was the OFM pushing it as 'official' several weeks ago ?
Yes, Faithlilly, this is one strange point more. Why is Mr McCann entering through the main door ? Why don't we see the draught slamming the bedroom door, a detail that intrigued the AG (and me) ?
If you think about it you start wondering if the main objective wasn't just to scatter suspicions by introducing various peeping Toms, crystallize Ms Tanner's sighting through the Smiths' one and impose Mr McCann's chat side of the street.