For Albertini ...

[south of the river]

The only way that innocence or guilt is 100% proved is by a trial and by a jury of your peers

Police or judges do not decide . Police gather evidence and present to the judicial system and then if there is enough evidence a trial takes place. Until then all suspects are presumed innocent

To say that because the AG didn't actually say the word " innocent " in his statement somehow means that they are really guilty a non sense  argument - It is not the AG remit to pronounce on guilt or innocence

Are we really saying that any one who has ever been interviewed by police under caution - but never tried is somehow technically guilty for ever more ??  as they haven't yet proved their innocence ?

the legal system can go back years and charge any person if new evidence is found  and this applies to the McCann's as well as anyone else

but until that happens they are Innocent citizens and no amount of weasel words will make a difference
 

[Eleanor]

So if there had been a Trial and The McCanns were acquitted every one would have said that this was okay and The McCann were Innocent forever more?
I don't think so somehow.

PS.  The AG did not say that Madeleine was more likely dead.  He said, "whether the child is alive or dead, OR which is the most likely."

And which of them was forced to admit in Court that the chances were 50% either way?

[Mr Gray]

as you have now logged on albertini, would you lie to answer the questions

[Chinagirl]

the legal system can go back years and charge any person if new evidence is found  and this applies to the McCann's as well as anyone else

but until that happens they are Innocent citizens and no amount of weasel words will make a difference

Quite.

[Albertini]

Instead of "the McCanns failed to demonstrate their innocence," would we be having this argument if the AG had said instead, "the police failed to find evidence of the McCann's complicity in their daughter's disappearance?"

But we are dealing with waht the AG report actually said and not what you want it to say.

[Mr Gray]

But we are dealing with waht the AG report actually said and not what you want it to say.

I am asking you ...what does demonstrating...proving..  you have used both words.. your innocence mean
you refuse to answer

[Mr Gray]

I have to go out new, will see if albertini has been able to answer the question later

[Chinagirl]

If you are arrested on suspicion of having committed some crime, and you offer a rock-solid alibi, have you "demonstrated your innocence," or have the police failed to make their case against you?

Repeating my question for Albertini in case he has missed it.

[AnneGuedes]

The AG did not say that Madeleine was more likely dead.  He said, "whether the child is alive or dead, OR which is the most likely."

No, he said she was more likely dead (not very original btw) :
Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain... nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely. (Astro's translation)

[Eleanor]

No, he said she was more likely dead (not very original btw) :
Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain... nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely. (Astro's translation)

You are wrong, again.

[AnneGuedes]

You are wrong, again.

You're spreading an erroneous translation of the AG report on the web and, moreover, accusing a translator, Astro, to be wrong.

[Eleanor]

Someone left out the OR in that translation.  I have no idea who did that.

[AnneGuedes]

Someone left out the OR in that translation.  I have no idea who did that.

There's no "or" in the original text and it is syntactically as absurd in Portuguese and in English. Have you an idea who added a coordination word which isn't even capable to make Madeleine less dead than alive ?

[Eleanor]

Are you seriously telling me that The AG was incapable of making a neutral statement in Portuguese.  And that he would be foolish enough to pass a personal opinion in a Legal Document when there was no evidence one way or the other?

[DCI]

There's no "or" in the original text and it is syntactically as absurd in Portuguese and in English. Have you an idea who added a coordination word which isn't even capable to make Madeleine less dead than alive ?

TRANSLATIONS BY ASTRO

Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive OR if she is dead, as seems more likely.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm