Can patio door be clearly seen from the tapas bar?

[faithlilly]

Whose Collins?  Cite please


All the bushes had just been cut back at the time of the abduction.  Greenery grows extraordinarily fast in the western Algarve.  Rain from the west and warmth. When did this Collins go and look, what was the state of the greenery and exactly where did he look from?

This photo was unfortunately taken when the greenery had grown, so it does not illustrate the Mccanns view as favourably as it was.



The photograph is taken from immediately outside the patio door to 5A.  You will see a swimming pool.  The two buildings with picture windows and immediately behind that pool  are the tapas outside restaurant.

We sat in the LH building but in the RH half.  We looked across the pool at 5A and could see virtually the whole patio window, top to bottom and side to side..

The Mccanns sat about 2 or 3 metres to the west of us, (meaning to the right of us in the photo), somewhere behind what looks like slim tree trunks.  With the foliage newly cut back, as it was then, (from contemporary photos at the abduction time), they would have seen most of the patio window and most of the steps up.

The internet and the media are misreporting the views.  The photos stored in such sites as the Mccannfiles are mainly taken from the wrong place and give a very distorted view.

I will ask again sadie. How do you know that the foliage had just been cut back at the time of Madeleine's disappearance ?

[John]

This was the view someone standing in the tapas bar had of the McCanns apartment in daylight.  Now just imagine what it would be like in darkness and looking through a plastic screen.

[faithlilly]

This was the view someone standing in the tapas bar had of the McCanns apartment in daylight.  Now just imagine what it would be like in darkness and looking through a plastic screen.

Exactly John and to imagine anyone at that distance, and with the noise within the tapas bar, could hear a child call for them is just ridiculous.

[sadie]

The top of the window could eventually be seen by someone standing outside of the plastic cover, but, ceiling height being 2,80m (norm in Portugal), nobody entering, except for a giant, could be spotted.

I think this illustrates it rather well, altho the foliage had grown at this time.

This photograph was taken from outside the patio windows.  It is easy to understand what the Mccanns could see.  When we were there the foliage must have been fairly recently trimmed as when Madeleine was taken



The building with  the picture windows immediately on the other side of the pool is the outside tapas.  It is in two adjoining halves as you can see.  We sat in the LH half behind the pool so towards the middle of the combined structure.  We had a near perfect view of the side (for Faith) of the stairs and of the patio doors.  Although some of the view was thru the railings, we could still see the patio doors virtually from top to bottom and from side to side.

The Mccanns sat in the RH half of the structure, somewhere behind the slim tree trunks that you can see.  The big table was positioned there.   They must have been two or three metres further west than we were, but as you can see, even tho the greenery needed pruning in this photo they still could see quite well.  With the greenery pruned right back as it had been on May 3rd they would have had a very good view.

I think you, Anne and Faith, must either have been sitting in the main tapas bar which is further west ... or else the foliage must have been very overgrown.  Greenery grows astoundingly quickly in western Portugal.  Rain comes in over the Atlantic and it is warm.  Nice climate.

===============================

This is a soon-after contemporary photograph of the foliage at the time of the abduction  Some may remember Gerry commenting later on the fact that the view had changed because the foliage had grown.

The photo was taken from the "watchers" balcony.  Policeman in position.  Bushes are cut back.  I think somewhere in the files it comments about gardeners in their garden working whilst the Mccanns were there.  But not sure.  Can anyone remember?



There is another photo somewhere which I cannot find.  That shows the bushes even more shorn, especially the round one.

With bushes cut back, there would be a much better view than in the upper picture shown.  Yes they could see most of the patio doors and steps up.

[John]

Lets face it Sadie, anyone sitting in the tapas bar with background music humming and people chattering would never hear anything that was happening outside.  The McCanns were effectively blind and deaf to anything that was going on in that apartment.

[sadie]

This was the view someone standing in the tapas bar had of the McCanns apartment in daylight.  Now just imagine what it would be like in darkness and looking through a plastic screen.

This was NOT the view they had John.

This photograph is taken from the Tapas bar NOT the Tapas open air restaurant.   It is taken from about 15 metres further away to the west.   It is an unfair picture as it gives incorrect information.  There are literally dozens of pictures on the internet that give incorrect information and this is one of them

[sadie]

Lets face it Sadie, anyone sitting in the tapas bar with background music humming and people chattering would never hear anything that was happening outside.  The McCanns were effectively blind and deaf to anything that was going on in that apartment.

I dont think you are right John.  I dont recall any music

[sadie]

Lets face it Sadie, anyone sitting in the tapas bar with background music humming and people chattering would never hear anything that was happening outside.  The McCanns were effectively blind and deaf to anything that was going on in that apartment.

Despite the poorly developed photograph that you posted earlier, there was some light, directly from the street lamp opposite 5A and that cast light onto the patio itself.
Also had anyone gone in or out thru that patio door, they would have stood out like a sore thumb against the sitting room light.

Amaral himself has said that npbody would go in, or out, that way, cos at only 50 metres away it was too close to the parents and tapas group.... and overlooked by them

[Lyall]

Despite the poorly developed photograph that you posted earlier, there was some light, directly from the street lamp opposite 5A and that cast light onto the patio itself.
Also had anyone gone in or out thru that patio door, they would have stood out like a sore thumb against the sitting room light.

Amaral himself has said that npbody would go in, or out, that way, cos at only 50 metres away it was too close to the parents and tapas group.... and overlooked by them

Are you forgetting that somebody says he did go in, at 9.30?

[sadie]

Are you forgetting that somebody says he did go in, at 9.30?

No, I am not.
 
That was pre arranged and would not cause any concern

[Lyall]

No, I am not.
 
That was pre arranged and would not cause any concern

So little concern nobody mentions seeing him go in or come out in their statements do they >@@(*&)

Perhaps because they couldn't?

[sadie]

So little concern nobody mentions seeing him go in or come out in their statements do they >@@(*&)

Perhaps because they couldn't?

Of course they could.

You have seen this photograph taken from outside the patio windows of 5A.  Hopefully you have read everything about it and the various points of interest. 

Lyall, if you can see the one way, then you can see the reverse way... and 5A patio was well illuminated by the street lamp right opposite.

Only animals dont understand that.  You understand it OK ... Dontcha ?

[Lyall]

Of course they could.

You have seen this photograph taken from outside the patio windows of 5A.  Hopefully you have read everything about it and the various points of interest. 

Lyall, if you can see the one way, then you can see the reverse way... and 5A patio was well illuminated by the street lamp right opposite.

Only animals dont understand that.  You understand it OK ... Dontcha ?

So why does nobody mention it in their statements? A child goes missing... police, family back home - and rest of the world - are told a door was left unlocked, but it occurs to nobody to say "actually we could see that door from where we were dining"?

Credible?

[sadie]

So why does nobody mention it in their statements? A child goes missing... police, family back home - and rest of the world - are told a door was left unlocked, but it occurs to nobody to say "actually we could see that door from where we were dining"?

Credible?

It is correct.  You can check it from the photos.  They could see those patio doors from where they dined, but not as good a view as we had.  You only have to look at the view from 5A balcony to realise what I am saying is correct ... oh and remember the street lamp.

As several of us have pointed out, statements will never cover every detail ... never.  They would be miles long if they did.

[Lyall]

It's the most crucial detail, but nobody mentions it? Nah. Not credible. Their view wasn't good enough to see anything.