The Jane Tanner surveillance of Robert Murat episode.

[Angelo222]

We don't know what Jane Tanner told the investigation outside of her official statements so cannot discount an identification that pushed the investigation in RMs direction.

Former Portuguese police coordinator Amaral will be privy to lots of stuff about the case which will never be in the public domain. It isn't rocket science folks.

[Angelo222]

The artist's impression of the abductor, released 25 October 2007

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

The PJ make the first public appeal, 25 May 2007

Detectives issued a description of a man seen on the night the four-year-old went missing in the resort of Praia Da Luz in the Algarve. Officers said the man was "carrying a child or an object that could have been taken as a child".

The man is said to be white, aged 35-40, 5ft 10in tall, medium build with hair that was short on top. He was wearing a dark jacket, beige or golden long trousers and dark shoes. At a news conference, Ch Insp Olegario de Sousa urged the man or anyone who had seen him to come forward.



Gerry's blog - Release of the artist's impression, 26 October 2007

Referring to Metodo 3:

'They have also released a sketch of an eyewitness who saw a man carrying a small child away from near the apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared. We believe this child was Madeleine. The Portuguese police have released the description of the man previously: he is 35-40 years old, approximately 5ft 8in - 5ft 10in (1.72-1.78m), Caucasian with southern European/Mediterranean appearance, slim build with dark hair.'


Jane Tanner - Panorama documentary, 'The Mystery of Madeleine McCann', 19 November 2007
RB: (Voice over) Jane Tanner is the only one of the group of friends who has agreed to speak to us. She denies recent reports that both she and her partner want to change their witness statements.

(To Tanner) I heard that you've not yet spoken to the media before and yet you've been much discussed. Why have you chosen to speak now?

JT: Well, I've not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about the case at all, and.. you know, from day one we've done everything we can to help them with the investigation. I think maybe I'm talking now because I'm being called a liar and a fantasist and all this, and I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted.


Jane Tanner - witness statement 10 May, 16.35pm

'Confronted with the information that the [tracker] dog teams had followed the scent trails in which, purportedly, Madeleine Beth McCann had not passed the intersection where she indicated a man carried a child, she affirmed, immediately, that she was not lying, maintaining the honesty of her initial version. That, indeed, there had passed in front of her a man carrying, in his arms, a barefoot child.


Martin Brunt talking about Jane Tanner on Sky.com 28 November 2007
"The police at the time, off the record told us that they thought Jane Tanner was not a very reliable witness. They were not suggesting that what she was saying was done in malice, but they thought she was changing her story from time to time. That’s why they never issued any appeal around it"


There is no mystery about the Tanner sighting.
Nor should there ever have been.
The Portuguese had the witness statement ... the Portuguese had the description provided by the witness.  The only problem was that the Portuguese police did not believe the eye witness testimony.

Probably explains why the Fund had to resort to the unheard of precedence of employing an artist to produce something a bit more advanced than the drawing of a hairy egg.

Jane Tanner suffered years of derision and being called a liar because yet again the initial investigation failed.  Yet another glaringly obvious omission had to be covered up and attention distracted from a botched investigative opportunity.
Jane Tanner has been one of the major fall guys for that incompetence for the simple reason she is a crucial witness whose testimony was ignored.
I am mystified as to the use of the allegation that she identified the carrier as Robert Murat and the allegation rife for some time that Murat was in the process of suing her as a result. 

Much of the mystery and unanswered questions arising from Madeleine's disappearance revolve around the primary inability and lack of knowledge and experience of those leading the most important phase of the investigation into a missing child ... the golden hours.
They appear to have been making procedure up as they went along and the handbook seemed to have one chapter entitled "THE MOTHER DUNNIT!" to the exclusion of inconvenient evidence which pointed in a different direction.

Despite everything we can all agree that Amaral was right. Jane Tanner did not see an abductor and this was confirmed by Redwood of Scotland Yard.  What she did was to wrong foot the investigation, it didn't exactly help that she failed initially to rule Murat out as being the man she saw that night.

And as for the identification, Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.  As time progressed however she appears to have changed her mind.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4130.msg151622#msg151622

[Angelo222]

In Jane Tanner's own words, she didn't want to put anything at Robert Murat's door but she just thought it was him...  hmm

“Erm well I think it’s when I’d done the, well I did the surveillance and then the next day after that, I think it came on Sky News about whether they were searching, what the MURAT’s house, so that’s Rachel sort of came running down at that point and sort of said, have you seen this blah, blah and at this point, nobody knew that I’d done the surveillance cos the Portuguese Police were very adamant that I shouldn’t tell anybody and I didn’t tell anybody for days actually, I didn’t even tell them then that it was actually, that I’d done it, I mean it was a couple of days afterwards.  So Rachel came down and sort of said, oh I saw him blah, blah, blah and then I think Russell, I can’t remember who else but then somebody else said oh they, they saw him and etc., so at that point it was, I rang Bob SMALL cos I’d got, I’d got his number from the day before for them and you know, they sort of, you know to say, oh is this, is this relevant and also I wanted to tell him that I’d seen him on the way to the doing the surveillance as well yeah just for that, so I think it’s just to make the point really that I think at that point, they didn’t know that Robert MURAT said he wasn’t there on the night”.

4078    “Right”.

Reply    “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

4078    “No”.

Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

[Mr Gray]

Former Portuguese police coordinator Amaral will be privy to lots of stuff about the case which will never be in the public domain. It isn't rocket science folks.

not rocket science just pure speculation,,,,,,what we know for certain is that amaral totally misunderstood quite a lot

[mercury]

In Jane Tanner's own words, she didn't want to put anything at Robert Murat's door but she just thought it was him...  hmm

“Erm well I think it’s when I’d done the, well I did the surveillance and then the next day after that, I think it came on Sky News about whether they were searching, what the MURAT’s house, so that’s Rachel sort of came running down at that point and sort of said, have you seen this blah, blah and at this point, nobody knew that I’d done the surveillance cos the Portuguese Police were very adamant that I shouldn’t tell anybody and I didn’t tell anybody for days actually, I didn’t even tell them then that it was actually, that I’d done it, I mean it was a couple of days afterwards.  So Rachel came down and sort of said, oh I saw him blah, blah, blah and then I think Russell, I can’t remember who else but then somebody else said oh they, they saw him and etc., so at that point it was, I rang Bob SMALL cos I’d got, I’d got his number from the day before for them and you know, they sort of, you know to say, oh is this, is this relevant and also I wanted to tell him that I’d seen him on the way to the doing the surveillance as well yeah just for that, so I think it’s just to make the point really that I think at that point, they didn’t know that Robert MURAT said he wasn’t there on the night”.

4078    “Right”.

Reply    “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

4078    “No”.

Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

Whch goes to prove mr amarals telling of the surveillance van exercise was not a lie, as some suggest. This all also raises the questiin, again, why when people were running around like headless chickens looking for the child she told none of them go go look THAT WAY and didnt tell the mccanns for fear of upsetting them.....pathetic and irresponsible

You see a man heading away with child in arms and thnk its odd they have no blanket or shoes
You hear of the child missing
You dont tell everyone what you saw

[carlymichelle]

  all i  wanted  to know  was who is this we  he speaks off?

[mercury]

all i  wanted  to know  was who is this we  he speaks off?

Yes i know, it was a simple question that anyoneand everyone might have asked

Mr. Davel might have meant it as a generic "no one" but that doesnt cut the mustard as his response shows he questions everythng about amaral and criticises everythung but nothng about the mccanns which he believes to be white as snow in everything, when in fact he knows nothing

[Brietta]

Despite everything we can all agree that Amaral was right. Jane Tanner did not see an abductor and this was confirmed by Redwood of Scotland Yard.  What she did was to wrong foot the investigation, it didn't exactly help that she failed initially to rule Murat out as being the man she saw that night.

And as for the identification, Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.  As time progressed however she appears to have changed her mind.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4130.msg151622#msg151622

Jane Tanner saw a man carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.  The only 'wrong footing' of that evidence was the inability of the investigators to investigate it competently.

Jane Tanner never pointed the finger at Murat.  That was a matter entirely the doing of the PJ.  After reading the report in the files it is in my opinion one of the investigative opportunities they carried out efficiently.  Despite the indications they followed not translating into evidence against Murat it was right and proper that they were investigated.

[mercury]

Jane Tanner saw a man carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.  The only 'wrong footing' of that evidence was the inability of the investigators to investigate it competently.

Jane Tanner never pointed the finger at Murat.  That was a matter entirely the doing of the PJ.  After reading the report in the files it is in my opinion one of the investigative opportunities they carried out efficiently.  Despite the indications they followed not translating into evidence against Murat it was right and proper that they were investigated.

Youre libelling dr amaral there, im sure its not a great idea when you absolutely do NOT know if tanner fingered murat...in fact her interview adds evidence that she did at the time but changed her mind
Unless you Know different whch i very much doubt, in fact i dont doubt, i know, lol


Oh well another day another waste of time

[mercury]

ive just realised this is a three yr old thread resurrected today by Ferryman today, any specific reason FM? (Apart from to slag off Amaral)??

[John]

In Jane Tanner's own words, she didn't want to put anything at Robert Murat's door but she just thought it was him...  hmm

“Erm well I think it’s when I’d done the, well I did the surveillance and then the next day after that, I think it came on Sky News about whether they were searching, what the MURAT’s house, so that’s Rachel sort of came running down at that point and sort of said, have you seen this blah, blah and at this point, nobody knew that I’d done the surveillance cos the Portuguese Police were very adamant that I shouldn’t tell anybody and I didn’t tell anybody for days actually, I didn’t even tell them then that it was actually, that I’d done it, I mean it was a couple of days afterwards.  So Rachel came down and sort of said, oh I saw him blah, blah, blah and then I think Russell, I can’t remember who else but then somebody else said oh they, they saw him and etc., so at that point it was, I rang Bob SMALL cos I’d got, I’d got his number from the day before for them and you know, they sort of, you know to say, oh is this, is this relevant and also I wanted to tell him that I’d seen him on the way to the doing the surveillance as well yeah just for that, so I think it’s just to make the point really that I think at that point, they didn’t know that Robert MURAT said he wasn’t there on the night”.

4078    “Right”.

Reply    “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

4078    “No”.

Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

It was a strange thing to say, "But I just thought it was"?

Could it be that Murat had been discussed by members of the tapas group prior to the identification episode?  It was claimed that Murat was there on the night of the disappearance, something he vehemently denied.  Was he the perfect stooge?

[mercury]

It was a strange thing to say, "But I just thought it was"?

Could it be that Murat had been discussed by members of the tapas group prior to the identification episode?  It was claimed that Murat was there on the night of the disappearance, something he vehemently denied.  Was he the perfect stooge?

Well no, because she was describng the way he walked was the way the man she saw walked, that was at 9 15 many hours before murat alledgedly spoke to members of tapas psrty that night/early morning and if and when they had discussions about him

[Robittybob1]

Well no, because she was describng the way he walked was the way the man she saw walked, that was at 9 15 many hours before murat alledgedly spoke to members of tapas psrty that night/early morning and if and when they had discussions about him

How many different types of walk are there?

[mercury]

How many different types of walk are there?

Its not just the type of walk  its the gait ,how a particular person moved and Tanner said Murat moved the same way as the person she saw carryng a child that night

though many here want to assert  she never fingered murat when she obviously did

Dont ask me any more questions if you want them answered instantly  Im off to bed

[Robittybob1]

Its not just the type of walk  its the gait ,how a particular person moved and Tanner said Murat moved the same way as the person she saw carryng a child that night

though many here want to assert  she never fingered murat when she obviously did

Dont ask me any more questions if you want them answered instantly  Im off to bed

But unless the person was carrying a child that is NOT a fair comparison either is it?