Was it really just like being in the garden while kids slept upstairs?.

[sadie]

Sadie it's not me you have a disagreement with, it's the McCanns.

K McCann writes in her book she believes the abductor could have entered and left via the patio doors.

Do you disagree?

What Kate thinks is irrelevant in this instant.  She has been influenced by gossip and deliberate disinformation.

 FGS, she even said in the book that the tapas was over a 100 yards away from 5A.  We all know that is incorrerct and the distance she gave is well over twice the actual distance, which is a little over 50 metres.. 

Once again she was influenced by disinformation ... and being such an honest woman, unaware that she could measure the actual distance using Google earth, she accepted the lies she was being told as the truth.

I work things out for myself ... and logically .... using facts

I know that i could be wrong at times ... and am always prepared to change direction if someone presents information that shows me wrong

I stand by what I said about the patio doors being the way was unlikely
I stand by what i said about nobody passing thru the bedroom window

I stand by the fact that the Front door, being totally out of view, with no-one passing by and in almost complete darkness ... also having been used for entry in two recent burglaries in OC, using a key, is the most likely way in and out. 

Please prove me wrong !

The abduction itself would have taken less than a minute

[Lyall]

No need to prove anything. The statements from 2007 are evidence enough that you're wrong. It's one thing to say that by 2011 somebody's memory may have been influenced, but of course that doesn't apply to the statements given at the time to the police.

Can you find anything in those statements that will support your claim about how much those nine people could see?

[icabodcrane]

What Kate thinks is irrelevant in this instant.  She has been influenced by gossip and deliberate disinformation.

 

What gossip and deliberate disinformation lead Kate to think  (  wrongly,  you suggest  )  that the unlocked patio doors may have been used by the abductor   ?

In what way was she misinformed and by whom  ?   

[sadie]

No need to prove anything. The statements from 2007 are evidence enough that you're wrong. It's one thing to say that by 2011 somebody's memory may have been influenced, but of course that doesn't apply to the statements given at the time to the police.

Can you find anything in those statements that will support your claim about how much those nine people could see?

Please identify the statements that provide evidence that I am wrong.

As for seeing,
I was there in 2010 eating at the very same tapas restaurant ... and i KNOW what was visible.


I also am aware of all the disinformation given out in the form of photographs taken from entirely the WRONG place .... in addition to growth on the bushes being entirely ignored.  I cannot re-iterate enough, how important it is to consider how the rapid growth of bushes caused clear lines of sight to become blocked.

[icabodcrane]

Please identify the statements that provide evidence that I am wrong.

As for seeing,
I was there in 2010 eating at the very same tapas restaurant ... and i KNOW what was visible.


I also am aware of all the disinformation given out in the form of photographs taken from entirely the WRONG place .... in addition to growth on the bushes being entirely ignored.  I cannot re-iterate enough, how important it is to consider how the rapid growth of bushes caused clear lines of sight to become blocked.

But sadie  ...   you were not there in 2007 

You have no idea what condition the foliage was in,   or what the lighting was like,  or what was visible at that point in time and what was not 

You can  'imagine'  that everything was exactly as your theory demands  ...   but you do not   know

[Lyall]

Please identify the statements that provide evidence that I am wrong.

As for seeing,
I was there in 2010 eating at the very same tapas restaurant ... and i KNOW what was visible.


I also am aware of all the disinformation given out in the form of photographs taken from entirely the WRONG place .... in addition to growth on the bushes being entirely ignored.  I cannot re-iterate enough, how important it is to consider how the rapid growth of bushes caused clear lines of sight to become blocked.

In their statements (the May 2007 ones) do any of the nine mention how much of that apartment they could see from the restaurant? Do any of them mention having seen Oldfield going in through or coming out from the patio doors?

[sadie]

In their statements (the May 2007 ones) do any of the nine mention how much of that apartment they could see from the restaurant? Do any of them mention having seen Oldfield going in through or coming out from the patio doors?

I asked you to provide evidence that I am wrong.   Please do that.

You stated that I was wrong ... and by implication a liar.


Have you been there when the bushes were newly cut ... and sat and looked hard to see what you could see of the patio windows?

[icabodcrane]

I asked you to provide evidence that I am wrong.   Please do that.

You stated that I was wrong ... and by implication a liar.


Have you been there when the bushes were newly cut ... and sat and looked hard to see what you could see of the patio windows?

Don't be silly  sadie,  being  'wrong'  does not make you a liar  ...  it just makes you wrong 

[sadie]

But sadie  ...   you were not there in 2007 

You have no idea what condition the foliage was in,   or what the lighting was like,  or what was visible at that point in time and what was not 

As I have shown several times before with contemporary photographs, the bushes had JUST been clipped back.

I know exactly where the lighting was and where it shone.  I know that new lighting has been fitted which is more powerful ... but I do know that the patio area was bathed in light and much of the steps up also illuminated.

I also know that the sitting room was quite well lit, because Matt stopped to look at the books on the book ?shelves  Sorry am unable to remember if they were on the shelves, or on a table, but that is not important.  What is important is that the light was good enough for him to notice them and to stop and look at what they were about.

As the curtains were moved back, if bundleman had entered that way, a huge new rectangle of light would have shone out ... and he would have been silhouetted

You can  'imagine'  that everything was exactly as your theory demands  ...   but you do not   know

Icabod, of course I dont KNOW for sure, but everything fits .... everything.


Can you supply na theory where everything fits?

[icabodcrane]

As I have shown several times before with contemporaray photographs, the bushes had JUST been clipped back.

I know exactly where the lighting was and where it shone.  I know that new lighting has been fitted which is more powerful ... but I do know that the patio area was bathed in light and much of the steps up also illuminated.

I also know that the sitting room was quite well lit, because Matt stopped to look at the books on the book ?shelves  Sorry am unable to remember if they were on the shelves or on a table, but that is not important.  What is important is that the light was good enough for him to notice them and to stop and look at what they were about.

As the curtains were moved back, if bundleman had entered that way a huge new rectangle of light would have shone out ... and he would have been silhouttted

Icabod, of course I dont KNOW for sure, but everything fits .... everything.


Can you supply na theory where everything fits?

oh for heaven's sake sadie  !

I could sit here and  'make up a story'  where everything  'fitted'   (  that no-one could  disprove  ) ...   it would still just be a made up story though,  wouldn't it   ? 

I am sorry,  I don't mean to be unkind  (  I  really  don't  )   but I feel that indulging your imaginings is not doing you justice and is frankly,  rather cruel 

[sadie]

oh for heaven's sake sadie  !

I could sit here and  'make up a story'  where everything  'fitted'   (  that no-one could  disprove  ) ...   it would still just be a made up story though,  wouldn't it   ? 

I am sorry,  I don't mean to be unkind  (  I  really  don't  )   but I feel that indulging your imaginings is not doing you justice and is frankly,  rather cruel

Please explain the cruelty bit.

Have NEVER been called cruel before



Oh and are you saying that I cannot express the things that I have noticed that lead me to think that the front door was used rather than the patio door.



Why does it matter so very much to you that the patio door wasn't used?  There has to be a reason !

[icabodcrane]

Please explain the cruelty bit.

Have NEVER been called cruel before



Oh and are you saying that I cannot express the things that I have noticed that lead me to think that the front door was used rather than the patio door.



Why does it matter so very much to you that the patio door wasn't used?  There has to be a reason !

oh no no  ...  you misunderstand

I feel it would be cruel of  me  to indulge your imaginings as though they were valid

[sadie]

oh no no  ...  you misunderstand

I feel it would be cruel of  me  to indulge your imaginings as though they were valid

All my so-called "imaginings" are based on fact .... something that there is a shortage of, on the sceptic/anti side 
They are based on fact that can be checked.  Please invalidate them logically, if you are able.

Dont worry Icabod.  I dont need your "indulgence".   



Why is it so important to you that the way in could only be via the patio door?  There has to be a reason.

Can we have that reason please?

[icabodcrane]

All my so-called "imaginings" are based on fact .... something that there is a shortage of, on the sceptic/anti side 
They are based on fact that can be checked.  Please invalidate them logically, if you are able.

Dont worry Icabod.  I dont need your "indulgence".   



Why is it so important to you that the way in could only be via the patio door?  There has to be a reason.

Can we have that reason please?

What do you think the reason is sadie  ? 

Do you think it is because I am afraid you are  'on to something'  ?   ...   something that I want to keep secret,  because I am   'in on it'  in some way    and want to cover up whatever awful fate befell that poor little girl  ?

Is that what you think  ?   

[sadie]

What do you think the reason is sadie  ? 

Do you think it is because I am afraid you are  'on to something'  ?   ...   something that I want to keep secret,  because I am   'in on it'  in some way    and want to cover up whatever awful fate befell that poor little girl  ?

Is that what you think  ?

I have asked you twice for your reasons for being so keen that the patio door was the way in ... and why you think that I am wrong about the front door.  You have to have a reason to be so determined about it.  That reason is all I am asking. 


Please your considered response ... not asking me again. 

Your reasons are what would be interesting now.  Surely that is not asking too much?