What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg ?

[faithlilly]

Seems even Kate believes the search was harmed more by their stratus as arguidos than Amaral's book. From the Daily Mail of 22nd July 2008 :

"Mrs McCann, struggling to keep her emotions in check, spoke of the terrible effect the police decision to make them 'arguidos' has had on them and the search for Madeleine.

Trembling and clutching a child's pink rucksack with her daughter's favourite toy Cuddle Cat inside, she said:
'It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was for us to be named as arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter's abduction and worse.

'It has been equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect this status has had in the search for Madeleine.'

The couple fear that potential witnesses who might have come forward with vital information were deterred when they were named arguidos in September."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/Police-report-Madeleines-disappearance-leaked-online-McCanns-threaten-sue-police-bungled-probe.html

Taking the above into account, how can they possibly know how much harm Amaral's book has done when they themselves have admitted the search was harmed when they were made arguidos ?

Was it Alan Pike that said the McCanns weren't too bothered about being made arguidos ? Seems he got that wrong !

[Redblossom]

yes FL


AP says that being made an arguido wasn't traumatic, but the things that were said, the way to interview them were.

I still cant get my head around the argument that being made arguidos or Mr Amaral writing a book or papers printing x y z would somehow brainwash the world and  stop anyone from coming forward if they had any information or if they spotted a girl who they thought might be Madeleine Mccann...(.the worldwide media still ran appeals and interviews and stories month on month and year on year) in   fact, people have done so, for years after, so its a non starter....as is the idea that most people were actively looking out for her months and months later but suddenly stopped because of the book! its nonsense IMO. There are thousands of other missing kids in the world, I dont understand this sense of entitlement they seem to have that the world looks for their child......these many years later. Its so unrealistic and not forgetting the astronomical and unprecedented support and money and people and organisations involved they have had over the years. Yet they still complain! They are hard done by.

[icabodcrane]

Seems even Kate believes the search was harmed more by their stratus as arguidos than Amaral's book. From the Daily Mail of 22nd July 2008 :

"Mrs McCann, struggling to keep her emotions in check, spoke of the terrible effect the police decision to make them 'arguidos' has had on them and the search for Madeleine.

Trembling and clutching a child's pink rucksack with her daughter's favourite toy Cuddle Cat inside, she said:
'It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was for us to be named as arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter's abduction and worse.

'It has been equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect this status has had in the search for Madeleine.'

The couple fear that potential witnesses who might have come forward with vital information were deterred when they were named arguidos in September."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/Police-report-Madeleines-disappearance-leaked-online-McCanns-threaten-sue-police-bungled-probe.html

Taking the above into account, how can they possibly know how much harm Amaral's book has done when they themselves have admitted the search was harmed when they were made arguidos ?

Was it Alan Pike that said the McCanns weren't too bothered about being made arguidos ? Seems he got that wrong !

Yes,  Alan Pike played down the emotional stress being made Arguido had on them 

He went as far as to say they  'expected it'  and were,  in fact,  surprised it hadn't happened sooner

Which is surprising given that he flew out to Portugal on a  'mission of mercy'  at the time,  and told Kate that she was going into fantasyland to even think they might be made official suspects 

Michael Wright, too,  was at pains to dismiss the Arguido episode as nothing more than a formality  ...   only given to the McCanns because  'the parents are always suspected first'   ...  and it was something they were expecting anyway    ( and   nothing to do with anything in particular that had happened in the investigation   )

Whether or not it was being made Arguido that changed public opinion,  rather than Amaral's book,   seems to have been the most contentious point of the trial so far

[Redblossom]

Yes,  Alan Pike played down the emotional stress being made Arguido had on them 

He went as far as to say they  'expected it'  and were,  in fact,  surprised it hadn't happened sooner

Which is surprising given that he flew out to Portugal on a  'mission of mercy'  at the time,  and told Kate that she was going into fantasyland to even think they might be made official suspects 

Michael Wright, too,  was at pains to dismiss the Arguido episode as nothing more than a formality  ...   only given to the McCanns because  'the parents are always suspected first'   ...  and it was something they were expecting anyway    ( and   nothing to do with anything in particular that had happened in the investigation   )

Whether or not it was being made Arguido that changed public opinion,  rather than Amaral's book,   seems to have been the most contentious point of the trial so far

It  was arguido status for sure....the  fact and he ins and outs  were  reported worldwide, discussions took off, documentaries and news pieces were made galore, Mr Amarals book readership was miniscule compared

[icabodcrane]

It  was arguido status for sure....the  fact and he ins and outs  were  reported worldwide, discussions took off, documentaries and news pieces were made galore, Mr Amarals book readership was miniscule compared

Kate's book,   too,  provides direct evidence of just how devastated and traumatised they were by being made Arguido 

Having people speak for them in court now  ... saying being made Arguido was  no big deal to them is pretty ridiculous

[Angelo222]

Seems even Kate believes the search was harmed more by their stratus as arguidos than Amaral's book. From the Daily Mail of 22nd July 2008 :

"Mrs McCann, struggling to keep her emotions in check, spoke of the terrible effect the police decision to make them 'arguidos' has had on them and the search for Madeleine.

Trembling and clutching a child's pink rucksack with her daughter's favourite toy Cuddle Cat inside, she said:
'It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was for us to be named as arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter's abduction and worse.

'It has been equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect this status has had in the search for Madeleine.'

The couple fear that potential witnesses who might have come forward with vital information were deterred when they were named arguidos in September."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/Police-report-Madeleines-disappearance-leaked-online-McCanns-threaten-sue-police-bungled-probe.html

Taking the above into account, how can they possibly know how much harm Amaral's book has done when they themselves have admitted the search was harmed when they were made arguidos ?

Was it Alan Pike that said the McCanns weren't too bothered about being made arguidos ? Seems he got that wrong !

Very well pointed out Faith.  I hadn't realised that was the case so just goes to show.

What I don't understand is why did the McCanns fear being made arguidos?  Isn't the whole point of being made an arguido is to protect ones rights?  Even the judge went out of her way to explain that arguido doesn't mean suspect.

It does look like whoever was advising the McCanns yet again failed them miserably.

[puglove]

Kate's book,   too,  provides direct evidence of just how devastated and traumatised they were by being made Arguido 

Having people speak for them in court now  ... saying being made Arguido was  no big deal to them is pretty ridiculous

I read that book. Go Kate, getting your sex life back.

Priorities, and whatever works for you.   

[Redblossom]

Kate's book,   too,  provides direct evidence of just how devastated and traumatised they were by being made Arguido 

Having people speak for them in court now  ... saying being made Arguido was  no big deal to them is pretty ridiculous

All bit of a dogs dinner, as per  usual then, night Icab and all

[AnneGuedes]

What I don't understand is why did the McCanns fear being made arguidos?  Isn't the whole point of being made an arguido is to protect ones rights? 

Remember what inspector Paiva reported when he advised the McCanns  about the probable arguido status and the need of a lawyer. Mrs McCann was very upset about what the media and their family/friends would think. The notification would lead to a turnaround and there was no way to get out of it. So she was right to be upset.
The objective of the arguido status (in France it's called "assisted witness") is, yes, to protect the human rights of a person of interest. But they needed special protection because a shadow had fallen on them thanks to the intelligence provided by the dogs.
And it is that intelligence which forced even credulous people (or people like me who never had given the case a second thought) to widen their perspective : what if it wasn't an abduction after all ?
Doubt broke through the minds and as long as the case doesn't find some kind of solution, there it will remain, unswervingly linked to Madeleine. Not so much doubt about what they actually did or didn't (nobody suspects them of murder), but doubt about their saying or not the truth. GA's book or not, it's difficult to imagine the doubt will not haunt the twins' thoughts.
When I observe on this forum the way some refer to sceptics, I can't but ponder over how disturbing and nightmarish doubt can be.

[ferryman]

Isn't Inspector Ricardo Paivia the one who sent photographs of himself naked to David Brett?

[AnneGuedes]

Isn't Inspector Ricardo Paivia the one who sent photographs of himself naked to David Brett?

Isn't gossip taking up space in your memory, Ferryman ? ;)

[ferryman]

Isn't gossip taking up space in your memory, Ferryman ? ;)

I don't subscribe to the falsehood that Kate and Gerry are somehow responsible for Madeleine's (assumed!) "death", no.

[Luz]

Seems even Kate believes the search was harmed more by their stratus as arguidos than Amaral's book. From the Daily Mail of 22nd July 2008 :

"Mrs McCann, struggling to keep her emotions in check, spoke of the terrible effect the police decision to make them 'arguidos' has had on them and the search for Madeleine.

Trembling and clutching a child's pink rucksack with her daughter's favourite toy Cuddle Cat inside, she said:
'It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was for us to be named as arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter's abduction and worse.

'It has been equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect this status has had in the search for Madeleine.'

The couple fear that potential witnesses who might have come forward with vital information were deterred when they were named arguidos in September."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/Police-report-Madeleines-disappearance-leaked-online-McCanns-threaten-sue-police-bungled-probe.html

Taking the above into account, how can they possibly know how much harm Amaral's book has done when they themselves have admitted the search was harmed when they were made arguidos ?

Was it Alan Pike that said the McCanns weren't too bothered about being made arguidos ? Seems he got that wrong !

Dear Faithlilly   

obviously it was the egg - most strange creatures, like the chicken & coKa, derive from DNA accidents when the reproduction process is ongoing.

About Mrs. Kate McCann's state of mind before the book (not the book, mind you) was published, we can bring in here her good friend Vanessa Allen's article «'I don't know how long she will hold on for', says Kate McCann's anxious mother By VANESSA ALLEN Last updated at 14:26 29 October 2007
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490317/I-dont-know-long-hold-says-Kate-McCanns-anxious-mother.html#ixzz2gHtSQey0

Even though Mr. Mitchel was very prestimous into deny it in that same article : «"It is beyond offensive to suggest Kate is suicidal. She is not.
"She is, however, a woman under immense pressure and her mother is perfectly entitled to defend her.", it seems that she was already feeling the pressure of the situation "she got/found herself into". How can you discount that from any stress caused by a book when it took them more than a year to file for a libel trial, and didn't care to persecute any of the other authors that had published books (some with similar conclusions) before Amaral's.

Was it because it was a best seller? ...and probably there was a money catch somewhere? I hope not.

[DCI]

Isn't Inspector Ricardo Paivia the one who sent photographs of himself naked to David Brett?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4186129/Maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-Brit-woman.html

Maddie cop ‘sent sex pics’ to Brit woman

[pic]

Accused ... Ricardo Paiva allegedly sent dirty photos to a British woman

EXCLUSIVE
By ALEX WEST
Published: 11th March 2012


A COP who comforted Madeleine McCann's parents is being probed for allegedly sending filthy photos to a woman.

Portuguese detective Ricardo Paiva is accused of posting them over the internet to a 20-year-old Brit.

Married dad Paiva, in his 40s, is said to have responded after she contacted him about Madeleine's disappearance.

It is claimed he begged the woman — a blonde model — to send him a photo and allegedly replied with an obscene image of himself. Paiva denies it was him and claims that someone hacked into his Facebook account.

Last night his Polícia Judiciária force confirmed it was investigating and had seized his computer. A source said: "They are checking the possibility Paiva's Facebook page has been hacked."

Inspector Paiva is also alleged to have leaked details of the bungled first police probe into Madeleine's disappearance to the model.

Madeleine was nearly four when she was kidnapped from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve in May 2007.

Family liaison officer Paiva was the cop closest to her devastated parents Kate and Gerry in the following days.

But he later clashed with the couple, both doctors of Rothley, Leics, who were made suspects. In her book "Madeleine", Kate told how Paiva went from being a trusted confidante to her main accuser.


What a dirty old man

[stephen25000]

Isn't Inspector Ricardo Paivia the one who sent photographs of himself naked to David Brett?

Nauseating comment.