Author Topic: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?  (Read 27316 times)

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Cariad

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The risk of any child being abducted is minuscule. The risk of a child chocking/ being electrocuted/ dying in a fire/suffocating is certainty increased if they are left alone though. This isn't the message people have received from this case though.

I read a book a couple of years ago (which I can't find right now, so can't quote correctly) about risk. It was estimated that in the year following the 9/11 bombings more people were killed in extra car crashes than in the original event because they were afraid to fly.

Increasing fear of abduction isn't helpful. Peoples fear of stranger danger is just irrational.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 04:00:44 AM by Admin »

AnneGuedes

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Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 06:21:59 PM »
The sense of security was real, they were right to feel secure. It's a pity parents should fear abduction from bed, the risk of a domestic accident is far greater.
It would be necessary to compare the ratio real/false abductions by strangers before and after before stating the McCann case had positive effect on parents.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 04:02:24 AM by Admin »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 06:38:31 PM »
The sense of security was real, they were right to feel secure. It's a pity parents should fear abduction from bed, the risk of a domestic accident is far greater.
It would be necessary to compare the ratio real/false abductions by strangers before and after before stating the McCann case had positive effect on parents.

We have actually been through this at length and the chances of a fatal accident in an apt with no stairs are incredibly small. Certainly it has had an effect on MARK Warner who no longer PROMOTE a baby listening service in any of their resorts

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 07:01:36 PM »

The risk of any child being abducted is minuscule. The risk of a child chocking/ being electrocuted/ dying in a fire/suffocating is certainty increased if they are left alone though. This isn't the message people have received from this case though.

I read a book a couple of years ago (which I can't find right now, so can't quote correctly) about risk. It was estimated that in the year following the 9/11 bombings more people were killed in extra car crashes than in the original event because they were afraid to fly.

Increasing fear of abduction isn't helpful. Peoples fear of stranger danger is just irrational.

Yes, it is true, Cariad - and welcome to the forum, by the way - that the risk of a child being abducted is minuscule, and that the rate of accidents in the home and elsewhere is sadly very high.

The fear that parents have of losing their children to a stranger is an irrational one, totally out of proportion to the actual risk of abduction. But it is a deeply-held fear nonetheless, one which the Madeleine case taps into. I believe that many parents will have exercised a much greater degree of caution with their children, in general terms, because of this and other abduction cases, one of the results being that children will have been much less likely to have been left on their own and vulnerable to all kinds of accidents. So in that sense I think there is a connection.

My mind turns to a serious case that occurred two years ago in the community in America in which I am currently living. A child a few hundred metres away from my home went missing, and, due to the detective work and diligence of community members, was found approximately 36 hours later, unfortunately dead and dismembered, some of his remains stored in the freezer of his abductor and killer, and other remains in rubbish bins nearby.

It was a horrific case that shocked the whole community, if not the whole of New York, and immediately had the effect of parents being more diligent with their children in all sorts of ways: volunteer organisations were formed in the neghbourhood to escort children walking home from school; stricter laws on CCTV across the state were passed in the courts (the boy had been found thanks to the CCTV footage of various local business owners); local shops and organisations joined a 'safe haven' scheme, placing notices in their windows for children indicating a safe place of refuge and help should they become detached from their parents; schools instituted new safety rules and were more diligent in criminal background checking for teachers; community organisations staged events where police and other community officials spoke to parents to give advice on child safety- not just outside the home but inside too... and so on.

Some of these things were directly related to the abduction/murder case; others not. The point is that the sorry case as a whole sent out ripples that changed parental awareness; not only awareness of danger itself, but a heightened sense of how fortunate we are to have our children safe and well - helping to promote better parenting in general.
 
I was at home looking after my two month old baby at the time, and remember being even more caring with him than usual , feeling even more grateful than before to have a healthy baby. Many local parents spoke about being so affected; many responded very emotionally. Counselling was organised by the city for both parents and children who had been traumatised or affected by the event.

All of the above being strictly speaking irrational, because the likelihood of such an event happening again in the same place is obviously tiny. The killer was a loner who is now serving a life sentence and will not be able to strike again. But at the same time, the abduction prompted us all to be kinder and more appreciative, and more diligent in general terms.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 07:09:26 PM »
The sense of security was real, they were right to feel secure. It's a pity parents should fear abduction from bed, the risk of a domestic accident is far greater.
It would be necessary to compare the ratio real/false abductions by strangers before and after before stating the McCann case had positive effect on parents.

It's not so scientific, Anne, I admit.

But the reality is that the world is becoming a more and more dangerous place for children and we are having to sharpen up accordingly.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 07:36:05 PM »
the reason for fatal accidents with children in the home are extremely small and are almost exclusively related to stairs.  no stairs in the appt

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 07:42:30 PM »
the reason for fatal accidents with children in the home are extremely small and are almost exclusively related to stairs.  no stairs in the appt

there  was outside of it

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 07:46:02 PM »
there  was outside of it

Absolutely, I have considered that but if Maddie had fallen outside someone would have seen or heard her. there would also have been blood on the stairs

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 07:57:35 PM »
The Internet ate my post!!

The gist of it was that although I worry that we're instilling unnecessary fears into our children, having read your post I have to agree with you that there is a greater good served by heightened vigilance.

I think you are sadly wrong. You have quoted an abduction case, could you, or anyone else quote a fatal accident in the home that did not involve fire. I think you will struggle. the home is a dangerous place for accidents, but not for fatal accidents

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 08:31:47 PM »
I think you are sadly wrong. You have quoted an abduction case, could you, or anyone else quote a fatal accident in the home that did not involve fire. I think you will struggle. the home is a dangerous place for accidents, but not for fatal accidents

Yes, I read this today actually:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24318197

Should I Google "fatal accidents in the home" I'm sure there'd be thousands of hits.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 08:37:35 PM »
Yes, I read this today actually:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24318197

Should I Google "fatal accidents in the home" I'm sure there'd be thousands of hits.

probably would have been better if you had googled it first then you wouldn't have made such a fool of yoursel

Rachel Granada

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Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 08:39:40 PM »
Yes, I read this today actually:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24318197

Should I Google "fatal accidents in the home" I'm sure there'd be thousands of hits.

What do you make of the Pontins/Butlins system of a nanny cycling up and down, Cariad? Would you condemn parents for that?

PS) Sorry for my rubbish Welsh in the other thread, I used to get Welsh telly on my old portable and watched "Scorio!!"
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 08:41:23 PM by Rachel Granada »

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 08:40:01 PM »
probably would have been better if you had googled it first then you wouldn't have made such a fool of yoursel

I don't understand? You asked me to supply an example of a fatal accident in the home, I did so. If I have made a fool of myself, could you please enlighten me as to how, so I can avoid making the same mistake again.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 08:44:44 PM »
I don't understand? You asked me to supply an example of a fatal accident in the home, I did so. If I have made a fool of myself, could you please enlighten me as to how, so I can avoid making the same mistake again.

you have managed to supply one example, not the thousand hits from google that you expected, fatal accidents in the home, not involving stairs or fires are incredibly rare. Stranger abduction from the home is almost certainly more common

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Fatal accidents in the home versus abductions. Is there are comparison?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 08:54:14 PM »
What do you make of the Pontins/Butlins system of a nanny cycling up and down, Cariad? Would you condemn parents fot that?

PS) Sorry for my rubbish Welsh in the other thread, I used to get Welsh telly on my old portable and watched "Scorio!!

Don't apologise! Seriously, no one ever tries, I'm really pleased that you did.

Personally I wouldn't take advantage of such a service. I've thought about this a lot, and I can't think of a single time I left my children out of ear shot at that age. I have two and there's 22 months between them. When they were babies I'd have them strapped to me in their sling, when they were older they'd be toddling around with me. If they were asleep in bed, we'd have the doors open and the baby alarm with us.

We have a shop on the corner of our street that is a comparable distance to the tapas bar from the apartment. On many an occasion I'd realise that I'd run out of something needed for the morning. I never left them. Never. Not for the 3 minutes it would take to grab a pint of milk.

Condemn is a strong word though. I think it's more a case of not comprehending someone else's actions. The idea of leaving small children is just alien to me. I'm more baffled by it than outraged.