Did the Joana Cipriano murder inquiry unduly influence the Madeleine one?

[drummer]

Does anyone know if Amaral attended the crime scene (Joanna's) asap. We know he didn't attend the scene of Madeleine's disappearance so I was just wondering.

[Redblossom]

Does anyone know if Amaral attended the crime scene (Joanna's) asap. We know he didn't attend the scene of Madeleine's disappearance so I was just wondering.

What a pointless question.....

[blonk]

Yes, that's correct Jassi.

After a "confession" was beaten out of her by the PJ.

Of course, Leonor Cipriano failed to prove her claim of torture in the courts [2008-9] despite being represented by the colourful Madeira lawyer, Marcos Aragao Correia, who has now done a bunk to Portugal. Correia was employed by the McCanns, via Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Actually, Leonor Cipriano made a voluntary confession, but not as detailed as her equally evil brother, Joao Cipriano. He not only explained to police how and why the two of them jointly killed little Joana, but then proceeded to give graphic and full details of now he sawed her body into pieces afterwards and then disposed of it.  All this is carefully recorded in a meticulous judgment by the Portguese Supreme Court running to 75 pages - I have an English translation of it.

Whilst on the subject of Marcos Corriea, he was the one who in a blaze of publicity hired a team of divers to search the Arade Dam (Portugal) for Madeleine's bones. He explained that he had information from his 'underworld contacts' that Madeleine had been abducted, raped, killed and her body thrown into a 'murky lake'. He was later forced to admit this was a complete lie. He then fabricated another story of how he came to be interested in Madeleine, claiming that he'd had a 'vision' of a 'big man' strangling a young blonde girl. No doubt the McCanns had their good reasons for employing him.

I don't know why people like Rachel Granada perpetuate the myth of an innocent Leonor Cipriano, a very evil woman.

Actually, I do. RG will keep on repeating this convenient lie at every opportunity. And so will her close allies on this forum. Not one of them will admit the truth: that she is an evil murderess justly locked up in 2005 for her vile crime.

Arrested, charged and prosecuted by one Dr Goncalo Amaral.  After Leonor Cipriano falsely claimed that Joana had been 'abducted'. 

[AnneGuedes]

Is this a leak of Monday's script?

Birds of a feather flock together ?

[AnneGuedes]

I don't know why people like Rachel Granada perpetuate the myth of an innocent Leonor Cipriano, a very evil woman.

Myths need vectors of propagation to spread like a craze. But myths that don't provide matter for reflection have a short life.

[Benita]

Does anyone know if Amaral attended the crime scene (Joanna's) asap. We know he didn't attend the scene of Madeleine's disappearance so I was just wondering.

I don't know drummer ..but I do know amaral reckoned he walked miles in the pouring rain on xmas day to take xmas lunch to leanor in prison .. >@@(*&)

[John]

Of course, Leonor Cipriano failed to prove her claim of torture in the courts [2008-9] despite being represented by the colourful Madeira lawyer, Marcos Aragao Correia, who has now done a bunk to Portugal. Correia was employed by the McCanns, via Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Actually, Leonor Cipriano made a voluntary confession, but not as detailed as her equally evil brother, Joao Cipriano. He not only explained to police how and why the two of them jointly killed little Joana, but then proceeded to give graphic and full details of now he sawed her body into pieces afterwards and then disposed of it.  All this is carefully recorded in a meticulous judgment by the Portguese Supreme Court running to 75 pages - I have an English translation of it.

Whilst on the subject of Marcos Corriea, he was the one who in a blaze of publicity hired a team of divers to search the Arade Dam (Portugal) for Madeleine's bones. He explained that he had information from his 'underworld contacts' that Madeleine had been abducted, raped, killed and her body thrown into a 'murky lake'. He was later forced to admit this was a complete lie. He then fabricated another story of how he came to be interested in Madeleine, claiming that he'd had a 'vision' of a 'big man' strangling a young blonde girl. No doubt the McCanns had their good reasons for employing him.

I don't know why people like Rachel Granada perpetuate the myth of an innocent Leonor Cipriano, a very evil woman.

Actually, I do. RG will keep on repeating this convenient lie at every opportunity. And so will her close allies on this forum. Not one of them will admit the truth: that she is an evil murderess justly locked up in 2005 for her vile crime.

Arrested, charged and prosecuted by one Dr Goncalo Amaral.  After Leonor Cipriano falsely claimed that Joana had been 'abducted'.

Thank you for explaining that blonk.

To refer back to my opening post.  I wanted to draw the parallel between the two cases.  Dr Amaral was closely involved in the Cipriano case and with the disappearance of Madeleine coming a mere 2 years 7 months later I just wondered if he let his experience of Joana's mother and uncle cloud his judgement towards the McCanns?

Had a different Coordinator uninvolved in the Cipriano case been given the task would the outcome have been much different?

[drummer]

I don't know drummer ..but I do know amaral reckoned he walked miles in the pouring rain on xmas day to take xmas lunch to leanor in prison .. >@@(*&)

 >@@(*&)

I was wondering, as a co-ordinator how Amaral actually co-ordinates, is it by telephone? Where does he co-ordinate from? Is it acceptable for a co-ordinator to not attend a crime scene? I wanted to know if he attended Joanna's place of disappearance or if like Madeleine he went nowhere near the place.

[jassi]

Co-ordinator implies gathering all the strands of the investigation together and directing the investigators, rather than doing on the ground investigations, himself.
Do Detective Superintendents in UK have a similar role, at least in the earlier stages of an investigation ?

[Redblossom]

Of course, Leonor Cipriano failed to prove her claim of torture in the courts [2008-9] despite being represented by the colourful Madeira lawyer, Marcos Aragao Correia, who has now done a bunk to Portugal. Correia was employed by the McCanns, via Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Actually, Leonor Cipriano made a voluntary confession, but not as detailed as her equally evil brother, Joao Cipriano. He not only explained to police how and why the two of them jointly killed little Joana, but then proceeded to give graphic and full details of now he sawed her body into pieces afterwards and then disposed of it.  All this is carefully recorded in a meticulous judgment by the Portguese Supreme Court running to 75 pages - I have an English translation of it.

Whilst on the subject of Marcos Corriea, he was the one who in a blaze of publicity hired a team of divers to search the Arade Dam (Portugal) for Madeleine's bones. He explained that he had information from his 'underworld contacts' that Madeleine had been abducted, raped, killed and her body thrown into a 'murky lake'. He was later forced to admit this was a complete lie. He then fabricated another story of how he came to be interested in Madeleine, claiming that he'd had a 'vision' of a 'big man' strangling a young blonde girl. No doubt the McCanns had their good reasons for employing him.

I don't know why people like Rachel Granada perpetuate the myth of an innocent Leonor Cipriano, a very evil woman.

Actually, I do. RG will keep on repeating this convenient lie at every opportunity. And so will her close allies on this forum. Not one of them will admit the truth: that she is an evil murderess justly locked up in 2005 for her vile crime.

Arrested, charged and prosecuted by one Dr Goncalo Amaral.  After Leonor Cipriano falsely claimed that Joana had been 'abducted'.

From what I have read confessions were in presence of original lawyer......so no beaten out confessions......What a pair of evil specimens.....and some people support them only to whiten the Mccanns reputation! As for their lying little s..mbag lawyer, words fail.....no doubt his just desserts are not far away

[stephen25000]

Of course, Leonor Cipriano failed to prove her claim of torture in the courts [2008-9] despite being represented by the colourful Madeira lawyer, Marcos Aragao Correia, who has now done a bunk to Portugal. Correia was employed by the McCanns, via Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Actually, Leonor Cipriano made a voluntary confession, but not as detailed as her equally evil brother, Joao Cipriano. He not only explained to police how and why the two of them jointly killed little Joana, but then proceeded to give graphic and full details of now he sawed her body into pieces afterwards and then disposed of it.  All this is carefully recorded in a meticulous judgment by the Portguese Supreme Court running to 75 pages - I have an English translation of it.

Whilst on the subject of Marcos Corriea, he was the one who in a blaze of publicity hired a team of divers to search the Arade Dam (Portugal) for Madeleine's bones. He explained that he had information from his 'underworld contacts' that Madeleine had been abducted, raped, killed and her body thrown into a 'murky lake'. He was later forced to admit this was a complete lie. He then fabricated another story of how he came to be interested in Madeleine, claiming that he'd had a 'vision' of a 'big man' strangling a young blonde girl. No doubt the McCanns had their good reasons for employing him.

I don't know why people like Rachel Granada perpetuate the myth of an innocent Leonor Cipriano, a very evil woman.

Actually, I do. RG will keep on repeating this convenient lie at every opportunity. And so will her close allies on this forum. Not one of them will admit the truth: that she is an evil murderess justly locked up in 2005 for her vile crime.

Arrested, charged and prosecuted by one Dr Goncalo Amaral.  After Leonor Cipriano falsely claimed that Joana had been 'abducted'.

 

[Montclair]

Co-ordinator implies gathering all the strands of the investigation together and directing the investigators, rather than doing on the ground investigations, himself.
Do Detective Superintendents in UK have a similar role, at least in the earlier stages of an investigation ?

Gonçalo Amaral's role was not that of directing the investigation. In Portugal, the PJ works with the judicial system, that is why it is called the judiciary police. The concept of a lead investigator does not exist as it is the Ministério Público and the judges who work along with the detectives to solve the crime. Also, the judges are there to ensure that all steps are done in accordance with the law.

[jassi]

Gonçalo Amaral's role was not that of directing the investigation. In Portugal, the PJ works with the judicial system, that is why it is called the judiciary police. The concept of a lead investigator does not exist as it is the Ministério Público and the judges who work along with the detectives to solve the crime. Also, the judges are there to ensure that all steps are done in accordance with the law.

In that case, what is the role of the Co-ordinator ?

[Benita]

>@@(*&)

I was wondering, as a co-ordinator how Amaral actually co-ordinates, is it by telephone? Where does he co-ordinate from? Is it acceptable for a co-ordinator to not attend a crime scene? I wanted to know if he attended Joanna's place of disappearance or if like Madeleine he went nowhere near the place.

Where does he co-ordinate from?



THE PUB 

[Lyall]

Gonçalo Amaral's role was not that of directing the investigation. In Portugal, the PJ works with the judicial system, that is why it is called the judiciary police. The concept of a lead investigator does not exist as it is the Ministério Público and the judges who work along with the detectives to solve the crime. Also, the judges are there to ensure that all steps are done in accordance with the law.

Thanks Montclair I think many posters get their ideas about criminal justice only from TV cop shows - and we in the UK know even less about how things work in Europe (which means most of us know nothing!)