Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[stephen25000]

In theory it would have been perfectly possible for Madeleine to have been abducted from her room even if the McCanns had chosen to eat on the balcony instead.

Is there anything you won't say to excuse the mccanns behaviour ?

[Alfred R Jones]

Is there anything you won't say to excuse the mccanns behaviour ?

Was my statement incorrect then?

[pegasus]

@Anna we know from statements that this group of tourists did not rush at all when doing these checks, easy to prove because you get people taking time out during the the 90 metres walk there or back to browse books or pop in the loo or chat with a passer-by, so to use any speed higher than 4mph in calculations would be would be incorrect. The children were 90 metres from the table and that takes 50 seconds each way at a normal pace or more if there is any dallying for bookbrowsing/peeing/yakking. This was a relaxed holiday and not a 90 metres sprint competition.

[Anna]

In theory it would have been perfectly possible for Madeleine to have been abducted from her room even if the McCanns had chosen to eat on the balcony instead.

I agree. IIRC, Mrs Fenn had an attempted burglary whilst she sat in her lounge.

[stephen25000]

what theory?

You said, 'in theory......'

So you must be able to give an account of how Madeleine could have been removed under the parents noses.

[Brietta]

Esprit FREE Baby-Listening / Child-Patrol Service

For children aged 17 weeks and over, our Baby-Listening / Child-Patrol Service is provided free of charge in all our chalets and Chalet Hotels on our staff’s one day off (generally Thursdays) from 7.30-11pm.
Our staff will patrol the corridors and monitor entrances and exits to the buildings to ensure the safety and well-being of children in their bedrooms. In larger properties there will be staff stationed on each corridor if appropriate. Our staff will contact parents if a child is restless and parents are responsible for settling their children.

We also offer this free service every evening from 7.30-11pm in all our Chalet Hotels, and 7.30-10.30pm in certain larger chalets (Pepi Gabl in St Anton, Alpenblume in Obergurgl, Corniche in Tignes and Schatzi andRomeo in La Rosière).

(Daily Baby-listening is not applicable to our smaller chalets, where, unless in Cocoa Club, children are generally asleep adjacent to or just upstairs from where parents are dining.)
http://www.britainsfinest.co.uk/hotels/hotels.cfm/searchazref/75001150SAUA

"The Childcare set-up is superb, and we have been completely confident in leaving our children. The baby–listening is a real treat too."
Family Steinlechner - Chalet hotel Mariandre, Alpe d’Huez, March 2011



There are many holidays available today which continue to offer child listening services in Britain and abroad. Many parents still take advantage of them.

The ground between the tapas restaurant and the apartments could be covered rapidly because of proximity.

How long do you think it would take a parent to get from A to B in the hotel mentioned above? 

In my opinion should a predator be determined enough the children sleeping just upstairs from where their parents are dining are every bit as vulnerable as Madeleine McCann turned out to be.

Whose responsibility is that?  The parents confident in their listening arrangements ... or the predator?   

[pathfinder73]

I agree. IIRC, Mrs Fenn had an attempted burglary whilst she sat in her lounge.

Burglars are looking for money or valuables not carrying a sleeping kid away from a neat tidy bed.

[carlymichelle]

im seeing  deja vu  yet again its like groundhog  day

[John]

In theory it would have been perfectly possible for Madeleine to have been abducted from her room even if the McCanns had chosen to eat on the balcony instead.

Possible but not probable.  If Madeleine was in fact taken then whoever did it was monitoring the parents movements.  As Gerry claims to have seen Madeleine around 9.15pm whilst on his last visit to the apartment then the abductor had to have made his move after that time.  Had at least one of them stayed put in the apartment then I believe Madeleine would not have been taken, assuming again of course that that is what happened.

Moral of the story is, do not leave young children unattended for any length of time.

[misty]

Would there have been any less condemnation of the parents had Madeleine been snatched from her bedroom while they were boozing on the balcony with the couple from next door, patio door closed to keep out the noise?

[carlymichelle]

Possible but not probable.  If Madeleine was in fact taken they whoever did it was monitoring the parents movements.  As Gerry claims to have seen Madeleine around 9.15pm whilst on his last visit to the apartment then the abductor had to have made his move after that time.  Had at least one of them stayed put in the apartment then I believe Madeleine would not have been taken, assuming again of course that that is what happened.

Moral of the story is, do not leave young children unattended for any length of time.

theres no excuses  that  mcann supporters use to justofy the lack of the mcanns  childcare imo john any sensible human being knows you  dont  leave toddlers alone   so why do the  mcann supporters justify it??  would they if  the mcanns were on benefits etc and not drs?

[Brietta]

theres no excuses  that  mcann supporters use to justofy the lack of the mcanns  childcare imo john any sensible human being knows you  dont  leave toddlers alone   so why do the  mcann supporters justify it??  would they if  the mcanns were on benefits etc and not drs?

Yes, I know ... some people could consider it terrible enough to keep commenting about it ... in the meantime, life has moved on for others who seem to have been able to come to terms with the enormity of it and resumed service as usual.

At the time Mark Warner seemed to recognise the inherent dangers by publicising what might have been considered as remedial methods when they shut down the service throughout their resorts.


Madeleine Firm Scraps Baby Listening
14:16, UK, Wednesday 23 April 2008
By Andy Jack

The company which runs the resort where Madeleine McCann went missing has withdrawn baby listening services at all its holiday facilities.
http://news.sky.com/story/598311/madeleine-firm-scraps-baby-listening



Then what happens if there is a continued demand for such a service and you are running a business?
In this litigious age I think they must have carried out a risk assessment ... and decided the benefits outweigh the risks ... and the listening service provided by Mark Warner continues to be advertised ... and continues to be used by parents who must be well aware of what happened in Praia da Luz.




Family Friendly Summer Holidays

Let's talk family friendly holidays.
We know how precious family time is, which is why we take care of everything and everyone.
Our summer resorts are hand-picked not only for their gorgeous locations around Europe, but also the family facilities they offer; family suites, parent kitchens, bright airy crèches and with a multitude of activities to get stuck into and fully qualified, British nannies on hand we make sure everyone gets the holiday they want.

There is a free Evening Listening Service available from 7.30pm to 11pm for children aged 4 months to 5 years. http://www.markwarner.co.uk/family-holidays/summer


Child friendly holidays

Childcare is included in the holiday price for those children 2 to 17 years and for little ones from 4 months to 23 months it will be chargeable. We offer a free evening listening service for children from 4 months to 5 years and for the older children we run free, fully supervised evening entertainment. This evening childcare takes place from 7.30pm to 11pm. Please check childcare availability for your selected dates and hotel online or with our sales team.
http://www.markwarner.co.uk/family-holidays/summer




Then the baby listening started at 8pm.

The staff walk around the rooms every 15 mins and listen at the door, if your child is making a noise they stay at the door and radio through to the control Nanny - who sends someone to find you.

We were called twice, and both times they had obviously heard him as soon as he woke up, as by the time we got to him he hadn't really noticed that we weren't in the room. Paula1 
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/198-anyone-been-to-mark-warner-in-lemnos

[pegasus]

Would there have been any less condemnation of the parents had Madeleine been snatched from her bedroom while they were boozing on the balcony with the couple from next door, patio door closed to keep out the noise?

If the parents had been sitting on the balcony eating a Tapas takeaway this case would never have happened Misty.

[Alice Purjorick]

im seeing  deja vu  yet again its like groundhog  day

Indeed Carly, I guess it's time to shoot through for a day or so 

[pegasus]

In fact none of this group of tourists had ever actually used an MW listening service anywhere.
You've been deceived by PR peeps to think they had.
They hadn't - read the statements in the files.