Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[Haskins]

Just a couple of comments, Haskins

* It was not only Madeleine who was left - it was her younger twin siblings also
* It was a repeated decision, not a one off mistake
* the main reason why young children should not be left out of sight and hearing is not because of the (very rare) possibility of abduction, but because of the far more frequent occurrence of accidents to young children

But unfortunately it cannot now be undone and they have to look forward and not back, because crucifying themselves will avail them nothing.  At least if they can help find Maddie they could, at least to a small extent, make amends.

[CPN]

But unfortunately it cannot now be undone and they have to look forward and not back, because crucifying themselves will avail them nothing.  At least if they can help find Maddie they could, at least to a small extent, make amends.

True - but - the message still has to go out for the sake of other children

[Wonderfulspam]

what an absolute load of complete rubbish. children have been put to bed and left alone in holiday accommodation for years..and guess what...how many recorded accidents can you recall ..

Put to bed & left alone for 'years'...?. Jesus wept!    Those are some seriously sleepy children.

[Mr Gray]

I haven't read her book but I did see her in an interview say that there was never a day went by that she didn't think "if only"...or words to that effect. That's how I recall it anyway.

My answer to the OP's question is yes, 50 meters was too far. Unquestionably Maddie should not have been left. I think Kate's own mother is on record as saying she has said as much to Kate and Gerald. It was a grievous mistake and grievously they have paid for it.

 you are in total denial...we have established that children were left regularly at butlins...are also still left at countless hotels...but no accidents..please stop posting this fallacy unless you can back it up with facts

[CPN]

you are in total denial...we have established that children were left regularly at butlins...are also still left at countless hotels...but no accidents..please stop posting this fallacy unless you can back it up with facts

Where have you established that there were no accidents to children left in hotels or at Butlins?

[Mr Gray]

I would go even further and I think the figures would support me...far more children have come to harm having been taken away from their families and put in care by social workers than have come to harm having been left to sleep in holiday accommodation

[Haskins]

you are in total denial...we have established that children were left regularly at butlins...are also still left at countless hotels...but no accidents..please stop posting this fallacy unless you can back it up with facts

davel I agree with the gist of the point you are making. i.e. they made a risk assessment and not in their worst nightmares did they imagine that what did happen would happen.Also  I am not saying that thousands of other parents have not done the same thing. What I am saying, and I appreciate that hindsight is 20/20, is that they made a mistake. I am sure that they themselves acknowledge this.

[Haskins]

True - but - the message still has to go out for the sake of other children

Yes it is hard to argue with that.

[Mr Gray]

I would go even further and I think the figures would support me...far more children have come to harm having been taken away from their families and put in care by social workers than have come to harm having been left to sleep in holiday accommodation

can you argue with that...no you cant

[Cariad]

davel, you've just quoted yourself and then replied to your own post.....you are actually now arging with yourself 

[ShiningInLuz]

What about smoking Luz?  Was it permitted in Portuguese restaurants in 2007?

OLD TOPIC WARNING!!!

The answer is yes in 2007. 

Smoking was banned in pubs and restaurants in Portugal (with certain exceptions) from 1st Jan 2008.

In this case it is extremely unfortunate, as if the restriction was in place in Madeleine's day, more people would have nipped out for a drag, and we might have had more info on Smithman for example.

[mercury]

OLD TOPIC WARNING!!!

The answer is yes in 2007. 

Smoking was banned in pubs and restaurants in Portugal (with certain exceptions) from 1st Jan 2008.

In this case it is extremely unfortunate, as if the restriction was in place in Madeleine's day, more people would have nipped out for a drag, and we might have had more info on Smithman for example.

Doubt it, many Southern European countries establishments still allowed smoking inside despite the official bans, some with or without measures taken (legally permitted) to mitigate smoke inside them...besides most restaraunts and bars do have outdoor seating and people have no problem sitting/smoking there

[Montclair]

Doubt it, many Southern European countries establishments still allowed smoking inside despite the official bans, some with or without measures taken (legally permitted) to mitigate smoke inside them...besides most restaraunts and bars do have outdoor seating and people have no problem sitting/smoking there

Despite what you think of the Portuguese, the bans on smoking are strongly enforced and it is rare to see anyone trying to smoke inside. Often, you see people standing outside of the restaurants taking a few puffs on their cigarettes before going back in. They are also very strict on cleanliness and hygiene in the kitchens and toilets and there are regular inspections.

[mercury]

Despite what you think of the Portuguese, the bans on smoking are strongly enforced and it is rare to see anyone trying to smoke inside. Often, you see people standing outside of the restaurants taking a few puffs on their cigarettes before going back in. They are also very strict on cleanliness and hygiene in the kitchens and toilets and there are regular inspections.

I made no reference to the Portuguese in particular, or said what I think of them as I don't know them, or the country, I was talking about south European countries in general, a few I have visited several times (not Portugal though) and the smoking ban was certainly not a blanket ban, at least in the first few years it was introduced, and in some areas not even now

[pegasus]

I can just imagine some lawyers and PR peeps sitting at that same tapas table a few days later saying:
"jeez this table is a long long way from that child bedroom, how can we trick people into thinking it was closer, oh how about we pretend the child's bed was not in the far bedroom let's pretend the bed was on the balcony and just measure to the balcony, that will shave about 10 metres off the real distance, oh and let's pretend the doctors were actually crows and could fly, that gets rid of another 30 metres, great, we're down to 50 metres now".