Author Topic: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong  (Read 6787 times)

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Offline sadie

Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« on: October 15, 2013, 01:08:28 PM »
This is an apology to SY and to the forums readers.

Have spent some time in the night thinking over this SY scenario ... and realising that I have missed some important points .... and was very probably wrong in my hasty assessment of the SY scenario of a guest walking back from the creche.  In my early thoughts, and seemingly in the early thoughts of others, it seemed entirely the wrong direction


However, having thought it over well.

Let us consider.

1)  Where did pertinent holiday makers place their children to be looked after during the day?

2)  The alleyways.  Would they be too complex for a person who didn't walk that way on a several times daily basis to a creche?  They are like a rabbit warren and in three days I hadn't got them fully sorted and I was trying.

3)  What would be the likely alternative route for someone who did NOT go to the reception /creche normally, so never travelled the rabbit warren?


The creches/kids clubs
There were three creches/kids Clubs that we know about.

i)  The daytime creche for the very young.  It would make sense that this was also the evening creche for all ages.  Beds etc.
This was situated next to the main reception.
David Paynes daughter Scarlet used this club, so he knew the back, short cut route
The man in question was leaving this creche


ii) Kiddies Club for  2 - 3 year olds. 
This was situated by the Tapas and tennis Courts.
If this mans child used a club, as a 2 year old, this would be the club

So this man would likely not know the back short cut route to Reception ' a veritable maze of alleyways!.  Quite likely that after check in, when he arrived, he NEVER visited Reception again until his child stayed that one evening.
.


iii)  The older kiddies club for 4 year olds upwards.  Madeleine, a few days short of 4 years old went there.
This was again situated by the main reception and the baby creche



Anyone with a child at either the baby creche or the older kiddies club, both next to the main reception would know the short cut there ... and this is the route that in an ill considered period, I rather foolishly thought this man would take.


However, there is no reason that he would consider it becos he had never had cause to go to that creche, before that evening.  Sensibly he would almost certainly opt for the main road route which, by then, he would know.   This is a distance of very approximately 600 metres.  This would take him along up R. Primeoro de Maio and turning right into R Agostinho de Silva to exactly the spot of Jane Tanners sighting


The routes have been fairly comprehensively discussed in an earlier thread (gilet or John may be able to identify the thread))  IIRC from 5A gate to the Main Reception was 268 metres (or yards) via the warren of alleyways. 
I think Anne said this man was going to 6B.  The distance there would be about the same at about 268 metres.

Comparing 600 metres to 268 metres, one would not readily expect someone to take the longer route.
But having considered the likely facts, I now accept that I was very probably in error.  I was too hasty.



It was an understandable error that I, and others, made.  Never the less, I apologise both to SY for rejecting their theory and to the readers here.

sadie

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 01:48:58 PM »
I don't think that makes sense sadie

I am looking at the street map on page 50 of Kate's book at this moment,  and I simply do not think  that this man would take the route you are suggesting  ...   it would involve him walking south west (  away  from the resort, almost as far as the rocks

Whether he was aware of the short cut  ( as  used by the McCanns  )  or not,  he would almost certainly have followed the main road only  until the junction that led  directly to the tapas/pool  area of the resort

From there he would have walked  up  the same street that Gerry and Jez were standing in

Perhaps someone can post the map

Offline sadie

Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 02:40:37 PM »
I don't think that makes sense sadie

I am looking at the street map on page 50 of Kate's book at this moment,  and I simply do not think  that this man would take the route you are suggesting  ...   it would involve him walking south west (  away  from the resort, almost as far as the rocks

Yep SW along R Direita, but TOWARDS the resort centre (Luz Centre) for about 150 metres then probably forking right along R. Joaquim Texiera.

Baptistas Supermarket was probably one of his landmarks.   Now, I think he got in a muddle when he reached Baptistas.  For the most direct route he should have turned right there with Baptistas to his left. 

But instead his mind clocked Baptistas ... and thought " I am on the right route" and instead of turning right he carried straight on, with Baptistas to his right.  When he reached the main road , R.Primeiro de Maio he knew where was and set off north.

He then then turned right (east) into R. Dr Agostinho de Silva, walked along there until he got to his apartment, and if the timing for both of them was right, crossing Jane at JT corner.


Whether he was aware of the short cut  ( as  used by the McCanns  )  or not,  he would almost certainly have followed the main road only  until the junction that led  directly to the tapas/pool  area of the resort

From there he would have walked  up  the same street that Gerry and Jez were standing in

Perhaps someone can post the map

Yep he should have gone up R Dr F. Gentils Martins where Gerry and Jezz were talking, but in the dark he made a mistake, imo. 
Some bits of Luz were very dark when we were there in 2010. 

My written word is poor but I have always excelled at maps and directions ... and I found it immensely difficult to find my way around the back streets of Luz after dark


A marked map would be good. 

Very difficult describing directions and places with words alone.  It is all rather abstract, rather than concrete, I find.   And some of these road names are real bum^^rs.  How on earth do the locals manage?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 03:00:53 PM »
The night creche opened at 19h30. SYman had to bring his toddler there, probably carrying her. How would he, one hour and half later, have forgotten the way he took ?
Gentil Martins is one of the most obvious streets in PDL, because it's steep, leads to the ocean, passes between nice buildings, has a supermarket and only local traffic, all features that Primeiro de Maio hasn't.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 03:03:59 PM by AnneGuedes »

Offline sadie

Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 03:32:12 PM »
The night creche opened at 19h30. SYman had to bring his toddler there, probably carrying her. How would he, one hour and half later, have forgotten the way he took ?
Gentil Martins is one of the most obvious streets in PDL, because it's steep, leads to the ocean, passes between nice buildings, has a supermarket and only local traffic, all features that Primeiro de Maio hasn't.
Did HE take her there?  Do you KNOW that, Anne? 

Was it daylight when she was taken?

Was it dark when she was picked up?

Do you think the person who took her passed Baptistas supermarket? 

Do you think that would be a landmark for him/her?

Did he pass Baptistas supermarket on the way back, albeit on the wrong side?



Do you think there is a possibility that his wife took the little girl, then said to him about passing Baptistas ... and he did that, but maybe not the way she intended?


So many things that have to be considered Anne, before we make judgement. 

I failed to do that originally.  Now that you have forewarning, I feel sure you would want to be more circumspect


icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 03:47:32 PM »
Perhaps John  could post a map

I really think it's necessary for members to see how very unlikely it is for the man to have  taken the route you are suggesting sadie 

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 05:15:00 PM »

I failed to do that originally.  Now that you have forewarning, I feel sure you would want to be more circumspect
One's own experience is without use for others, that's why the hermit in the Tarot has a lantern that enlightens only his path.

Offline sadie

Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 06:19:53 PM »
One's own experience is without use for others, that's why the hermit in the Tarot has a lantern that enlightens only his path.
Errm.....

Yeah, right!

If you say so................... 8**8:/:

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 07:53:44 PM »
Is this map from the BBC news website any good?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24526934

I note that MO's check isn't on the time line too.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline John

Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 12:01:52 PM »
Here is the map which was originally posted to depict one of the two shortcuts from Main Reception/Crèche to the McCanns apartment.


A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 12:44:45 PM »
Unfortunately, none of these maps shows the route SYman had to take to be able to be Bundleman.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 12:53:23 PM »
Unfortunately, none of these maps shows the route SYman had to take to be able to be Bundleman.

I was thinking that Anne

To paraphrase 'Jaws'  ...  we're gonna need a bigger map !

Even the map John kindly posted does not cover a large enough area to show the long and  out of the way  route  from the creche  that this man would have to have taken in order to be seen walking in the direction he was, by Jane


Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 01:10:48 PM »
1st 2nd 7th and 8th maps here may help, left hand column


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MAPS.htm

Offline xtina

Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »
I was thinking that Anne

To paraphrase 'Jaws'  ...  we're gonna need a bigger map !

Even the map John kindly posted does not cover a large enough area to show the long and  out of the way  route  from the creche  that this man would have to have taken in order to be seen walking in the direction he was, by Jane



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id94.html
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Apology to SY and readers. On reflection, I got it wrong
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 01:25:30 PM »
1st 2nd 7th and 8th maps here may help, left hand column


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MAPS.htm

Yes,  thanks Red  ...  the 8th one down  (  entitled Smith sighting plan  )  shows the very long  route the father would need  to have taken

I just can't fathom him having done that ...