Author Topic: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?  (Read 97061 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #360 on: June 01, 2014, 02:23:08 AM »
Let us not forget the random gusts of wind that moved doors within 5a, only on 3 May however and only while Kate was standing there watching.

 8@??)(

Offline sadie

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #361 on: June 01, 2014, 02:31:17 PM »
Question: "Someone left a room, and the door was wider open, explain the physical connection between the two events"
Answers so far range from "No-one left the room and the door was not wider open" to "Whatever happened it was impossible they went to the bathroom". Maybe time to hang up my deerstalker, how can anyone compete with simple occam-like deductions like that.
Now you are exagerating Pegasus ... and that is not like you.

Get that deerstalker back firmly on your head.  Mind you, maybe I will have it if you have finished with it.  You can keep the pipe.

There are any number of reasons why the door could be more, or less, open, and really it is a bit futile even contemplating them.  So many possibilities.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #362 on: June 01, 2014, 02:47:05 PM »
Now you are exagerating Pegasus ... and that is not like you.

Get that deerstalker back firmly on your head.  Mind you, maybe I will have it if you have finished with it.  You can keep the pipe.

There are any number of reasons why the door could be more, or less, open, and really it is a bit futile even contemplating them.  So many possibilities.

It never moved, that's the most likely.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #363 on: June 01, 2014, 03:01:06 PM »
I don't understand how you work that out.

Madeleine was asleep at 8:30 and still asleep 30 minutes later in the exact same sleeping position according to the father. No moving door in his first statement before his check. Why not?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #364 on: June 01, 2014, 03:33:31 PM »
Madeleine was asleep at 8:30 and still asleep 30 minutes later in the exact same sleeping position according to the father. No moving door in his first statement before his check. Why not?
But you are telling us yet again what you think definitely did not happen, which forms no part of your theory, and you are quoting as true (and using as a proof) a source which you claim is IYO not true at all. You say its a lie but in the same breath you use it as a proof.
Is there actually any statement re the inside of the apartment between tapas tea and 22:03.0000 which is true in your opinion and on which you base your theory? If not what on earth do you base your theory on?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 03:36:43 PM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #365 on: June 01, 2014, 03:52:56 PM »
But you are telling us yet again what you think definitely did not happen, which forms no part of your theory, and you are quoting as true (and using as a proof) a source which you claim is IYO not true at all. You say its a lie but in the same breath you use it as a proof.
Is there actually any statement re the inside of the apartment between tapas tea and 22:03.0000 which is true in your opinion and on which you base your theory? If not what on earth do you base your theory on?

Gerry is telling you that didn't happen i.e. Madeleine didn't move it. A dead child can't move doors i.e. the door was always half-open.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 03:56:56 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #366 on: June 02, 2014, 12:43:17 AM »
Gerry is telling you that didn't happen i.e. Madeleine didn't move it....
So are you basing your whole theory of what happened inside the apartment that evening, on the statements of someone who you think is in your opinion lying about everything?
Either you have remarkable detective skills, to deduce the truth without having a single true statement you believe, or it explains why IMO your exact timepoint 22:03, which you also get ironically get from a statement by same person, is drastically out JIMO. If you do not accept even one of the four adults who entered the apartment is  telling the truth, on exactly what do you base your inside theory on? Its like you are making a cake using no ingredients?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 12:50:35 AM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #367 on: June 02, 2014, 01:25:48 AM »
What is the time period, which definitely contains within it the moment the child exited the apartment?
(So for example you might answer something like: "definitely between 21:20 and 22:00").

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #368 on: June 02, 2014, 01:54:32 AM »
So are you basing your whole theory of what happened inside the apartment that evening, on the statements of someone who you think is in your opinion lying about everything?
Either you have remarkable detective skills, to deduce the truth without having a single true statement you believe, or it explains why IMO your exact timepoint 22:03, which you also get ironically get from a statement by same person, is drastically out JIMO. If you do not accept even one of the four adults who entered the apartment is  telling the truth, on exactly what do you base your inside theory on? Its like you are making a cake using no ingredients?

My theory is Madeleine was never in bed that night. You are the one who believes that she was and if you believe .... ........ are telling the truth then you must know that ..... doesn't believe Madeleine moved the door. He thinks it was Tannerman. That door was said to move for a very good reason. Strange that move isn't mentioned in his first statement. You wouldn't forget that vital piece of information because it would be the first thing you'd think about after ............ had disappeared.

10:03 connects with Aoife and Smithman. That was the biggest mistake ever i.e. check watch for exact time for alibi. Martin and Peter's times were incorrect on leaving the Dolphin restaurant but Aoife's time matches. She said they left Kelly's bar at 10pm.

Dolphin bill time 9:27 (source TOTL)

Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar' (Martin Smith) Incorrect time

He would like to clarify that on the 3rd of May, he and his family went to the Dolphin restaurant, situated in Praia da Luz, where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and went to Kelly's Bar, about one minute away on foot. (Peter Smith) Incorrect time

Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin  restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30 (Correct time - PF), they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night.  (Aoife Smith)

 The other is the Irish family payment (of their bill) at the Dolphin restaurant. They made that payment with a debit card at 21:27 hours but – you have to bear in mind that after they left the restaurant they went to a bar (…) (TOTL - G. Amaral)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 03:19:06 PM by Mr Moderator »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #369 on: June 02, 2014, 02:18:35 AM »
10:03 connects with Aoife and Smithman
By apparently (?) rejecting the statements of all 4 adults who were inside the apartment, that leaves you with freedom to create whatever sequence and timeline inside the apartment you wish, as you have no veracious statement inside that night IYO to constrain your theory. JIMO your 21:20ish exit time (possibly the earliest proposed by anyone now?) is drastically way out. And the completely normal behaviour observed by chat witness is a bit of a clue that nothing had been discovered at that time isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 02:20:08 AM by pegasus »

Martina

  • Guest
Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #370 on: June 02, 2014, 02:41:22 AM »
Matt's statement is a bit problematic in some parts. Here is an excerpt from his rogatory:

So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in because you could see the twins in the cots and one of the, you could see the twins in the cots because they're in with, sort of the cots were in the middle of the room with sort of a gap of about sort of maybe a foot between the two, the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing and there were two there and it was all completely quiet.


Compare that description with the photo of the Children bedroom in 5A.



Sure, the cots have these mesh sides Matt is talking about. The problem is that in the position they were standing he could not see the inside of the cot closer to the door, the one with the fabric ending. It was not possible to see one of the twins breathing without actually walking into the room.  So, basically he went to check on three children, and left without actually checking if two of them were still in their beds. Does anyone see here any logic?

e
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 03:04:41 AM by John »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #371 on: June 02, 2014, 02:49:09 AM »
Matt talks about it at 12:40

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #372 on: June 02, 2014, 02:49:49 AM »
Matt didn't see if she was in bed because he couldn't see most of it from where he was standing. Only three people claim to have seen Madeleine after 6pm - Gerry, Kate and David.
Agreed at approx 21:30 did not see the child. And the witness's statements are completely honest IMO.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 03:05:45 AM by John »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #373 on: June 02, 2014, 02:53:58 AM »
Agreed at approx 21:30 did not see the child. And the witness's statements are completely honest IMO.


I believe Matt is telling the truth about his check as for the rest 8(0(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #374 on: June 02, 2014, 03:34:51 AM »
I believe Matt is telling the truth about his check as for the rest 8(0(*
two checks actually