Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?

[Wonderfulspam]

Waking, getting up, opening the door, getting back into bed and falling asleep in the same position that her father left her in 40 minutes before?

Actually, I do find that strange. It's been a while since I've had toddlers, but I'm fairly sure that waking up in a strange place and finding themselves without Mummy or Daddy would've been a massively traumatic experience and not conducive with settling back to sleep!


Even if this did happen (it's not impossible, just highly unlikely imo) You then need to explain the door moving again between 9:10 and 9:30. Dr Mccann closed it to it's usual position of 5(?) degrees, yet it was half open for Matts check at 9:30, then wide open again at 10.

Not forgetting, if anyone wants to try & claim it was the wind what dunnit, how that howling wind through the open window only blew with sufficient force required to slam the door shut, at the exact moment that Kate went to close it.

Then, even more incredibly, that same gusty wind must have paused for a bit, as Kate stood there trying to workout if some flat bed clothes were Madeleine or not & also while she rushed to check the other bedroom, since during that time it didn't slam the door again.

Then, when Kate returned to the bedroom, the wind obligingly blew the curtains open & she knew straight away that she'd been err taken....y'know.

[Martina]

Not forgetting, if anyone wants to try & claim it was the wind what dunnit, how that howling wind through the open window only blew with sufficient force required to slam the door shut, at the exact moment that Kate went to close it.

Obviously that was the wind with high dramatical skills.

[pegasus]

... 40 minutes before ...

100 minutes actually.

The child was visually seen at about 19:30 then not again until about 21:10.

The check at about 20:30 (just before dinner) was not visual and cannot possibly have noted the sleeping position

"listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence, he did not even enter"

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta2

[pathfinder73]

100 minutes actually.

The child was visually seen at about 19:30 then not again until about 21:10.

The check at about 20:30 (just before dinner) was not visual and cannot possibly have noted the sleeping position

"listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence, he did not even enter"

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta2

Nobody saw Madeleine at 19:30. DP said he saw the kids at around 18:30 when he entered the apartment but Kate said he never entered.

[pegasus]

Nobody saw Madeleine at 19:30. DP said he saw the kids at around 18:30 and said he entered the apartment but Kate said he never entered.

And you base your conjecture "nobody saw at 19:30" on which police statement which you believe is true ?

[Cariad]

100 minutes actually.

The child was visually seen at about 19:30 then not again until about 21:10.

The check at about 20:30 (just before dinner) was not visual and cannot possibly have noted the sleeping position

"listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence, he did not even enter"

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta2

Yes, you're quite right. It wasn't a visual check at 8:30. I'm sure I recall Dr Mccann saying that Madeleine was in the same position though? Must've been the 7:30 position....

I still stand by my opinion that Madeleine is unlikely to be responsible for all 3 differing door positions though.


I can't believe that it's usual for a 4 year old to wake up in a strange place and settle herself back down again. I would've thought she'd be distraught.

[Wonderfulspam]

Yes, you're quite right. It wasn't a visual check at 8:30. I'm sure I recall Dr Mccann saying that Madeleine was in the same position though? Must've been the 7:30 position....

I still stand by my opinion that Madeleine is unlikely to be responsible for all 3 differing door positions though.


I can't believe that it's usual for a 4 year old to wake up in a strange place and settle herself back down again. I would've thought she'd be distraught.

That was at 9.

'Madeleine Was Here' documentary.

"So, I actually came in and Madeleine was just at the top of the bed here, where I'd left her lying and the covers were folded down and she had her cuddle cat and blanket, were just by her head."

[pathfinder73]

And you base your conjecture "nobody saw at 19:30" on which police statement which you believe is true ?

None of theirs at that time. The dogs and contradictions told me so.

[Alfred R Jones]

Why do you keep describing the apartment as a strange place Cariad?  Madeleine had been sleeping in there every night for the previous 5 or 6 nights, by which time her surroundings would have become very familiar.

[Cariad]

Why do you keep describing the apartment as a strange place Cariad?  Madeleine had been sleeping in there every night for the previous 5 or 6 nights, by which time her surroundings would have become very familiar.

5 nights isn't really long enough for somewhere to become familiar for a child is it?

Is it?

Anyone got young kids care to comment? I know children adapt quicker than adults, but it would be freaky for a 4 year old to wake up alone in an apartment they'd spent 5 nights in wouldn't it?


Or anywhere really?

I'm almost certain that my boys would come in with me if they woke in the night at that age.

[pegasus]

...I'm almost certain that my boys would come in with me if they woke in the night at that age.

And (hypothetically of course) if they did wake and go into your room but found you were not there, what would they do then?

[Alfred R Jones]

5 nights isn't really long enough for somewhere to become familiar for a child is it?

Is it?

Anyone got young kids care to comment? I know children adapt quicker than adults, but it would be freaky for a 4 year old to wake up alone in an apartment they'd spent 5 nights in wouldn't it?


Or anywhere really?

I'm almost certain that my boys would come in with me if they woke in the night at that age.

Speaking from my own experience I would say that after a couple of nights in a rented cottage or villa my kids always felt very settled and at home but then all kids are different, I guess.  Certainly the surroundings would be very familiar after 5 nights.

[Cariad]

And (hypothetically of course) if they did wake and go into your room but found you were not there, what would they do then?

um... scream hysterically for Mummy? I think they'd've been terrified. Actually, thinking about it, I reckon they would've woken their brother.....  On purpose I mean, not by screaming. Woken the other one for moral support/assistance/so as not to leave them alone if they decided to find Mummy.

[pegasus]

Thanks Cariad. I value your opinion.
It is difficult to work out what would happen, in the scenario of waking up, if there are no adults.

IMO, if the child was not scared by anything, had simply woken up and was relaxed, and knew there was a possibility adults might be out, I think they might get back into bed and go back to sleep. I am still working on understanding what would happen exactly in the other (woke up and scared) variant.

BTW it is good to see someone thinking of events from the most important person's perspective.

[Cariad]

Thanks Cariad. I value your opinion.
It is difficult to work out what would happen, in the scenario of waking up, if there are no adults.

IMO, if the child was not scared by anything, had simply woken up and was relaxed, and knew there was a possibility adults might be out, I think they might get back into bed and go back to sleep. I am still working on understanding what would happen exactly in the other (woke up and scared) variant.

BTW it is good to see someone thinking of events from the most important person's perspective.

The other point that's worth making, that I don't think anyone has yet, is that as the eldest child, Madeleine probably could use the child gates and probably had it drummed in too her not to leave them open.

I don't dismiss woke and wandered cause everything was closed after her.