Author Topic: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?  (Read 97118 times)

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AnneGuedes

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2013, 07:36:38 PM »


However,  if  that was  the case then we are left with the equally unlikely scenario of an abductor,  Gerry McCann,  Jez Wilkins,  Jane Tanner,  and an innocent father carrying a child ALL  there at the same time

It looks more and more like an over-egged pudding
Not really, Icabodcrane, though I agree things are getting a bit more messy. Basically we still have the unsolved mystery of the invisible woman. In that mystery the unique difference is Tannerman becoming Innocentman (supposing SY hasn't too much manipulated the facts to suit their agenda).
The second mystery, the moving door one, due to Innocentman identification, will hardly find a resolution if Mr Abductor wasn't in the 5A before, with and after Mr McCann.
We're then left with the question of his escape. Has it improved with unmasked Tannerman? No, because we can't bypass the main evidence of all : the little girl matching so well Madeleine against the shoulder of a fatherlike carrier.

Lyall

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2013, 07:41:16 PM »
That's a very reasonable analysis

I agree with you that if the explanation for the twice opened bedroom room door is that an abductor was in the apartment as early as 9.05pm,  then it is highly unlikely that he was seen almost an hour later by the Smith family

However,  if  that was  the case then we are left with the equally unlikely scenario of an abductor,  Gerry McCann,  Jez Wilkins,  Jane Tanner,  and an innocent father carrying a child ALL  there at the same time

It looks more and more like an over-egged pudding

It was already unlikely Icabod, but was sustained for six years (kind of, I'm not sure many actually believed JT had seen an abductor anyway - not even fervent supporters of Madeleine's parents.)

The new scenario may actually be less implausible to some people as it doesn't depend on an actual witness. Not having to rely on JT may actually strengthen their faith.

You can be sure the friendly media will think of something to explain this door problem.

Offline Luz

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2013, 07:46:30 PM »
After announcing a new time line as breaking news, we discover that they're not certain but behave and deduce and focus exactly as if they were. Are they kidding ?
They could be certain, since they identified a possible innocent father.
They exhibit pyjamas obviously different from those described by Ms Tanner and all they say is that they're quite similar. Are they kidding ?
They avoid the question of the route SYman took from the creche, al-right, but instead of saying if SYman crossed GMartins where Tannerman did, they say it was close to the McCann flat. Are they kidding ?

The mystery of the moving door is certainly interesting.
At about 20.30 the couple left to have dinner in the restaurant.
At about 21.05 – 21.15 Gerald went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to, however he entered and saw the children and saw that the window as well as the shutter were closed.
At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child who passed descending the road, however she did not recognise this individual, nor the child, only having noticed that the individual appeared to be aged between 30 or 40, had dark hair and light coloured trousers.
At about 21.30 their friend Mat entered the apartment by the back door (patio door) he did not enter the bedroom and only saw the twins sleeping, he did not notice anything strange.
At the same place, at about 22.00 Kate discovered the facts and the consequent disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, at this moment the window being wide open as well as the curtains and the shutter.

Vol I  pp. 2-10
This the fresher statement of all.

For me the swinging door is the most revealing part of their testimonies - it will be hard for people to forget the notorious "woshhhh" of the curtains by Mrs. McCann on Oprah's sofa.
All these years we've been yelled at by the abduction defenders that Ms. Tanner had seen the abductor, so there was a monster that had taken the child. To prove it the McCann father and mother provided statements that the door had not been as they had left it and even that the father, retrospectively, maybe had been in the apartment with a paper thin abductor hiding behind the children's room door.
Now, the  swinging door is just the wind, because after all Tanner's abductor was probably just an innocent, six and a half years hidden father, making a circuit around the building with a child held in upfronted arms - probably training his biceps.

But SY says so, and we have to believe it.

Offline Benice

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2013, 08:39:52 PM »
If that was the explanation then it  would have happened on other nights too   ...  it didn't

But that's the trouble with wind Icab  - especially gusty breezes, it can be quite still for a time and then get blowy.   There no predicting when or where or for how long or how strong.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Lyall

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2013, 08:47:59 PM »
But that's the trouble with wind Icab  - especially gusty breezes, it can be quite still for a time and then get blowy.   There no predicting when or where or for how long or how strong.

There's no predicting when children will awake, get out of their beds and maybe open doors either >@@(*&)

AnneGuedes

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2013, 09:24:44 PM »
There's no predicting when children will awake, get out of their beds and maybe open doors either >@@(*&)
And may be never once considering how in the world they were to get out again.

The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling down a very deep well.


Cariad

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2013, 09:40:06 PM »
That's a very reasonable analysis

I agree with you that if the explanation for the twice opened bedroom room door is that an abductor was in the apartment as early as 9.05pm,  then it is highly unlikely that he was seen almost an hour later by the Smith family

However,  if  that was  the case then we are left with the equally unlikely scenario of an abductor,  Gerry McCann,  Jez Wilkins,  Jane Tanner,  and an innocent father carrying a child ALL  there at the same time

It looks more and more like an over-egged pudding

That is one busy street! Maybe the new abductor should be 'invisibleman'  ?{)(**


And may be never once considering how in the world they were to get out again.

The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling down a very deep well.



We are expected to believe six impossible things before breakfast...

icabodcrane

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2013, 11:13:41 PM »
I have no idea. You wanted an abduction hypothesis to discuss in terms of the science, but so far nobody has even tried to knock it down by forensic science. I think there is a word that says it all. Agendas.

You've got a whole thread to  'challenge'  and 'lecture'  on   ...  please don't hijack this one as well

AnneGuedes

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2013, 11:28:18 PM »
What is the evidence the abductor was in the appt at 9
He (Mr McCann) went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2013, 11:28:43 PM »
What is the evidence the abductor was in the appt at 9

G McCann saying the door had moved.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2013, 11:30:57 PM »
He (Mr McCann) went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to

Didn't one of them mention sensing someone in the apartment at one point?
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2013, 11:37:08 PM »
Mathew checked at 9.30pm - no window or curtain was open in the room when he looked inside. An abductor is not going to stay in there once Gerry left and then Mathew checked. How long are you saying an abductor was hiding in there for? Nonsense. The only available time is 9.30 to 10pm for an abductor to get inside.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:33:41 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2013, 11:40:23 PM »
Didn't one of them mention sensing someone in the apartment at one point?
Directly, I don't think so. But may be a source close or a friend or an alleged quote by a newspaper.
Mr McCann admitted to have been in the room with the abductor but remarked that Ms Tanner could have caught him !

Lyall

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Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2013, 11:49:32 PM »
Directly, I don't think so. But may be a source close or a friend or an alleged quote by a newspaper.
Mr McCann admitted to have been in the room with the abductor but remarked that Ms Tanner could have caught him !

It's mentioned in the book, along with the line "What we do now believe is that the abductor had very probably been into the room before Gerry's check."

Based only on the angle of the door.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2013, 11:54:46 PM »
It's mentioned in the book, along with the line "What we do now believe is that the abductor had very probably been into the room before Gerry's check."

Based only on the angle of the door.

Talked themselves into a corner.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club