Does Cipriano's convictions let Amaral and the PJ off the hook?

[Mr Gray]

Umm did you not see the bit where he says "The point I think he was making .." lol.  G Edwards clearly tied you up in knots on your original thread when he eloqently explained a very good analogy as to why GA's conviction was based on a technicality and then I came along, backed him up and them proceeeded to demonstrate why Amnesty no longer make reference to GA re Cipriano case on their site.

Not one of my posts has contained the word 'removed' :)  Why would I use it when I clearly use the words 'not referenced' in the text I added onto my own screenshot collated using 5 Amnesty reports lol. Maybe admin can confirm if there is a recycle bin for deleted threads?  I'm not sure if such a thing exists.

What is not to understand? Frankly I find you hilarious as I am sure many others do :)

]
Edwards has confirmed you used the words removed..you have been caught out ..but never mind

[Serendipity]

Anyway, I will leave you to froth and fester Davel as I have packing to do as I am away to Carlisle at 5.30 in the morning :)  Just man up and accept you were wrong, it's no biggie for heavens sake.  :)

Have a lovely rest of the weekend all :)  It will realisitically be Tuesday now before I log in again :)

[Mr Gray]

serendipity..lets move on

so why in your opinion is there no mention of the cipriano torture case on the 2013 report

[Mr Gray]

Anyway, I will leave you to froth and fester Davel as I have packing to do as I am away to Carlisle at 5.30 in the morning :)  Just man up and accept you were wrong, it's no biggie for heavens sake.  :)

Have a lovely rest of the weekend all :)  It will realisitically be Tuesday now before I log in again :)

wrong im absolutely right..we will continue this discussion when you are available

[Mr Gray]

Ilook forward to continuing the debate with serendipity as there are further untruths he has posted...but this time I have saved the screenshots

[Mr Gray]

Anyway, I will leave you to froth and fester Davel as I have packing to do as I am away to Carlisle at 5.30 in the morning :)  Just man up and accept you were wrong, it's no biggie for heavens sake.  :)

Have a lovely rest of the weekend all :)  It will realisitically be Tuesday now before I log in again :)

to be continued tomorrow

[Mr Gray]

I was told that the Amaral/Cipriano debacle was removed by Amnesty because of the perjury conviction which Leonor now has.  Is that what this is all about Dave??

yes thats what its all about...another myth

[Mr Gray]

I clearly stated last night that I had taken screenshots of each of the available Amnesty International Reports for Portugal  for the years 2009 to 2013 and had collated them into one screenshot as shown below.  I then added my own text in red which clarified the point I was making which clearly explained the purpose of the screenshot.

Yours and others accusations last night that I have altered or falsified official documents are totally unwarranted and incorrect and I expect a full apology  from you. :)

Here are the supportive links which are all referenced in the screenshot that was posted last night. Compare them all and you will clearly see that they are the same :)

2009 Amnesty International Report
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2009

Reference to Cipriano case found under 'Torture and other ill-treatment'

2010 Amnesty International Report
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2010

Reference to Cipriano case found under 'Torture and other ill-treatment'

2011 Amnesty International Report
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2011

Reference to Cipriano case found under 'Torture and other ill-treatment'

2012 Amnesty International Report
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2012

Reference to Cipriano case found under 'Torture and other ill-treatment'

But lookee here at the 2013 report, there is no longer any reference to Goncalo Amaral or Leonor Cipriano under the heading 'Torture and other ill-treatment'

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2013

So Davel, why do think it is that there is now no mention of either Amaral or Cipriano in the 2013 report given that there has been in all of those years (2009 - 2012) since the original case came to court?

I'll tell you why, it is because in April 2013 Leonor Cipriano had a further 7 months added to her sentence for false testimony for lying about being tortured by the PJ.  Therefore as she lied about it, Goncalo Amaral is no longer of interest regarding the Cipriano case as far as Amnesty International are concerned, hence no mention of the case in the current report.

Like I said last night, it is not rocket science :)

And now I am going out for the evening so I will be logging out and so will bid you adieu and look forward to catching up with you again :)

Oh and here is the screenshot that I posted last night :)

could you confirm ce that your conclusions are the same as serendipity which he has printed in red

[DCI]

They could always be asked.

England
 
The Amnesty UK headquarters and registered office is based in London, at the following address:
 
General Enquiries
 
For general enquiries please contact the Supporter Care Team in our London office:
 
Amnesty International UK
The Human Rights Action Centre
17-25 New Inn Yard
London EC2A 3EA

Phone +44 (0) 20 7033 1777
Fax +44 (0) 20 7033 1503
Textphone +44 (0) 20 7033 1664
Email sct@amnesty.org.uk

[C.Edwards]

could you confirm ce that your conclusions are the same as serendipity which he has printed in red

I'm not confirming anything. You said my conclusions were wrong. That's a definitive statement, not conditional. Now you're asking me what my conclusions are?  Do you know what you're doing?  Why are my conclusions wrong and what conclusions are they please?

[Mr Gray]

I'm not confirming anything. You said my conclusions were wrong. That's a definitive statement, not conditional. Now you're asking me what my conclusions are?  Do you know what you're doing?  Why are my conclusions wrong and what conclusions are they please?

you see why its so important to ask these questions at the start

[Mr Gray]

you posted..

I clearly recall serendipity saying he'd added the red text himself.  You were so busy being outraged that you didn't seem to notice, however.  The point I think he was making was that Amnesty International used
to have something on their site about the torture of Cipriano and that a part of it had been removed.  I was tired so didn't take it all in properly at the time.  In a nutshell she was found to have lied. Therefore other than a faintly ridiculous (for a given level of ridiculous, of course) legal system judging that even though Amaral did not lie in his document he kind of didn't know he wasn't lying at the time and therefore his suspended sentence remained, it's pretty much all over bar the shouting, isn't it?
well how about that for a start

[C.Edwards]

you posted..

I clearly recall serendipity saying he'd added the red text himself.  You were so busy being outraged that you didn't seem to notice, however.  The point I think he was making was that Amnesty International used
to have something on their site about the torture of Cipriano and that a part of it had been removed.  I was tired so didn't take it all in properly at the time.  In a nutshell she was found to have lied. Therefore other than a faintly ridiculous (for a given level of ridiculous, of course) legal system judging that even though Amaral did not lie in his document he kind of didn't know he wasn't lying at the time and therefore his suspended sentence remained, it's pretty much all over bar the shouting, isn't it?
well how about that for a start

Davel. Stop being obtuse. You said my conclusions are wrong.  You cannot state that without saying what those conclusions are. Put up or shut up.

[John]

Dave, can I ask why you think all references to Amaral and Leonor Cipriano are now missing from the Amnesty International Report on torture and other ill-treatment for 2013?

Has there been an oversight?

[Mr Gray]

Davel. Stop being obtuse. You said my conclusions are wrong.  You cannot state that without saying what those conclusions are. Put up or shut up.

you have supported serendipities version of events in countless posts as everyone has seen. im not going to trawl through all your posts to prove it. how  wise I was to check you out before starting the debate..I will wait and discuss with serendipity..off to watch university challenge now