Strange Witness Statements

[Brietta]

I have not actually gone to the end of the alleyway.

I have been on 1 de Maio, immediately above that end.  And I have gone down the passage between blocks 4 & 5.

Having gone down the passage between the blocks you would have been right at the junction of the pathways where I think it would have been easy to watch the tapas restaurant, and where had anyone approached, it would have been easy enough to melt into the darkness in the narrower one behind block 4 ~ or even to make an escape if necessary.

[sadie]

Mea culpa.

I was interested in the view from the other stairwell in block 6 and got this mixed up.

Your view is from the first floor up on the west end of block 6, which is accessible to the public, if you are happy to lurk-a-lot.

That particular vantage point shows the comings and goings in front of block 5 as well, though it has deficiencies in that respect.

Sorry! 

First or second floor, right opposite the balcony to 5A.  Almost all can be seen from there ... and getaway car parked just behind in the car park opposite the Tapas Reception.  Access to that out of public view, via the apartments garden straight into the car park and the getaway vehicle.

[sadie]

@Sadie @Shining have you been far end alleyway?

The alleyway between block 4 and 5 and the Tapas/ garden area?

No I haven't pegasus but I have seen photos and studied G E., both showing a massive difference in street level to alleyway level, and a wall

So a dead end.

But I had also realised that it was possible to go onto Rua Maio via a small pathway past the most western part of block 4.  That may have been gated, but I think not at that time

[sadie]

Mea culpa.

I was interested in the view from the other stairwell in block 6 and got this mixed up.

Your view is from the first floor up on the west end of block 6, which is accessible to the public, if you are happy to lurk-a-lot.

That particular vantage point shows the comings and goings in front of block 5 as well, though it has deficiencies in that respect.

Sorry! 

Yep accessible to the public.

So I agree with you that the narrow alleyway is a possibility and you agree wwith me that the balcony opposite 5A patio balcony is a possibility ?

Two possibilities.

I prefer the balcony for reasons that I have outlined in my post: June 06, 2015, 03:33:37 PM



FGS.  The watcher can see right into apartment 5A from there !
The thought of that makes my skin come up in goose pimples
.....  JEEZ


I can vividly remember, as a young woman, suddenly spotting a Peeping Tom watching me as I changed for bed.  He had climbed up to a window at the back of our home and had smoked fags up there before I suddenly spotted him.  My tiny bedroom was on the front of the house, but I had changed in full view of that window, knowing that as countryside was behind, we were not overlooked.

No-one expects a man to climb up to watch !


But as was possibly the case in 5A, a man opposite looking in !!!!!   CREEPY !

[G-Unit]

Yvonne Martin made a strange statement. Did Kate really say that a couple had taken Madeleine?

the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

[ShiningInLuz]

Yep accessible to the public.

So I agree with you that the narrow alleyway is a possibility and you agree wwith me that the balcony opposite 5A patio balcony is a possibility ?

Two possibilities.

I prefer the balcony for reasons that I have outlined in my post: June 06, 2015, 03:33:37 PM



FGS.  The watcher can see right into apartment 5A from there !
The thought of that makes my skin come up in goose pimples
.....  JEEZ


I can vividly remember, as a young woman, suddenly spotting a Peeping Tom watching me as I changed for bed.  He had climbed up to a window at the back of our home and had smoked fags up there before I suddenly spotted him.  My tiny bedroom was on the front of the house, but I had changed in full view of that window, knowing that as countryside was behind, we were not overlooked.

No-one expects a man to climb up to watch !


But as was possibly the case in 5A, a man opposite looking in !!!!!   CREEPY !

I agree with you that anyone placed on the west end of block 6, whether on the ground floor or up above, has a view that is decent to good for carrying out a snatch.

I hope that is unequivocal enough.

Different positions on the W end of block 6 pose different problems.

Ground floor does not let you monitor the Tapas restaurant, though it does give you the entrance to the Tapas area, plus rear and enough of front of block 5. Unfortunately 605, the ground floor apartment W, was occupied by Portuguese residents.

One floor up and you get a good view of the Tapas restaurant, plus rear of 5A, plus enough of the front of block 5. You now need to hang out around that apartment (609?) plus dash down and across in one of the gaps in the parent check.

Top floor should give a great view of the Tapas restaurant, and because of the elevation, a better view over the front of block 5.  Hang out there, then dash down 2 flights of stairs, across to 5, enter 5A, snatch Maddie, off into the night.

It could have happened therefore it should be considered.

Someone monitoring from the car park of block 4 was well placed and safe.  Someone monitoring from south of block 4 (to a lesser extent block 5 re Matthew Oldfield's weird 9.30 check) was safe and well placed to execute the snatch.  Simple.

I am struggling with Textusa at the moment, on much the same conundrum  A jolly decent post, but why oh why go complex and ignore the simpler option?

[pegasus]

High quality video of view from block 6 external stairs to apartment and restaurant
From 50:02 to 50:27
BBC Panorama http://youtu.be/Zqoj-pfBUnY

ETA see also 48:12 to 48:45

[sadie]

I agree with you that anyone placed on the west end of block 6, whether on the ground floor or up above, has a view that is decent to good for carrying out a snatch.

I hope that is unequivocal enough.

Different positions on the W end of block 6 pose different problems.

Ground floor does not let you monitor the Tapas restaurant, though it does give you the entrance to the Tapas area, plus rear and enough of front of block 5. Unfortunately 605, the ground floor apartment W, was occupied by Portuguese residents.

One floor up and you get a good view of the Tapas restaurant, plus rear of 5A, plus enough of the front of block 5. You now need to hang out around that apartment (609?) plus dash down and across in one of the gaps in the parent check.

Top floor should give a great view of the Tapas restaurant, and because of the elevation, a better view over the front of block 5.  Hang out there, then dash down 2 flights of stairs, across to 5, enter 5A, snatch Maddie, off into the night.

It could have happened therefore it should be considered.

Someone monitoring from the car park of block 4 was well placed and safe.  Someone monitoring from south of block 4 (to a lesser extent block 5 re Matthew Oldfield's weird 9.30 check) was safe and well placed to execute the snatch.  Simple.

I am struggling with Textusa at the moment, on much the same conundrum  A jolly decent post, but why oh why go complex and ignore the simpler option?

I have always felt that this abduction was extremely well planned and a team effort.  Abducted to order , for someone else, an Elite.

SY have shown interest in 3 men in PdL.  Do they think the same?

With 3 (or 2) men, there would be no need to keep dashing up and down stairs.  Communication from a short distance could have been by light signals , torch or lighter even.


My theory, having the getaway car parked opposite the Tapas Reception, with the balcony watcher as the getaway driver, would explain Tannerman wandering around for, was it 35 minutes, before The Smiths saw him.   And probably hiding for some of that time. (in the staff quarters?)

As said before the getaway driver could not get thru for the planned pick up at the entrance to 5A front car park because of Gerry and Jez talking en route ... and Jane having witnessed the abductor carrying Madeleine away.


Only my thoughts but it did seem rather pertinent when SY showed suspicion over three youngish men IIRC.  Cos I think three people likely worked together.


I dont think this was a normal Paedo abduction Shining.  I think this was a business transaction by a team of burglars/ abductors in PDL.  There would be different criteria if the trio had no personal paedo instincts, than from a true paedo, who would most probably work alone


All IMO

[misty]

High quality video of view from block 6 external stairs to apartment and restaurant
From 50:02 to 50:27
BBC Panorama http://youtu.be/Zqoj-pfBUnY

ETA see also 48:12 to 48:45

Thank you for that.
I am pondering as to whether several hours of night surveillance could have been successfully carried out from that balcony.
The group of parents were never all together during the day, so identification of every individual checking on the unattended children in Block 5 would have been necessary. That would entail monitoring the car park entrance & watching to see exactly where each parent went & how they checked. Such surveillance could have been carried out on the Mon/Tues &Wednesday night. I have excluded Sunday as no-one would have been aware the children were going to be left unsupervised that night.
 Rachel's presence in 5B due to illness may well have prevented any abduction being carried out on the Wednesday.
Looking on G/Earth, monitoring of the front of Block 5 appears quite restricted, especially during darkness. There is no clear view from Block 6. The block on the opposite side of the road offers limited visuals and imo is too distant for clear & proper monitoring.
That leaves the car park & the upper floors of block 5. The car park would have been a risky option for lengthy surveillance.
I believe the watcher was in Block 5, on one of the upper floors. The only thing that went wrong for him/her was the unexpected change of routine on the Thursday with Gerry accessing via the patio door.
5J is my best guess - holed up there with a supply of food so the watcher didn't have to leave the apartment for anything. No-one knew he was there.

[sadie]

High quality video of view from block 6 external stairs to apartment and restaurant
From 50:02 to 50:27
BBC Panorama http://youtu.be/Zqoj-pfBUnY

ETA see also 48:12 to 48:45

Thanks Pegasus.  Those extracts are well worth looking at..

There are three balconies. , situated in a "stack" formation on the North-Western face of block 6, and immediately opposite the side of 5A as can be seen from the video.

THe images seen between 50.02 and 50.27
The images shown here are from the 1st floor.  The views of the tapas restaurant will change as one goes up to the two floors above, but generally only to see over bushes, parasols etc.

We do not know if these views are from the very northern tip of the balcony, which has the best view of the Tapas restaurant and its eastern exit..

We do not know if the camera man leaned out, but I rather doubt it with an expensive and probably heavy camera..


The images from 48.12 to 48.45
The images here are taken from the north-western garden area of Block 6.  From somewhere under the balconies or nearby.


Please note

These images are NOT contemporary to the abduction, as can be seen by the state of the bushes around 5A.  The 5A rear garden bushes had just been trimmed at the time.   
Bushes within the Tapas area may have grown, blocking views thta were maybe there before?

But in any case the views from higher balconies would probably / possibly be over the top of many of these bushes



We dont know.


But SY and the PJ may know.

[pegasus]

The statement about cigarette butts on block 6 external stairway
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

[pegasus]

From a report dated Sept 27th 2007 by officers Ramos Ricardo Brigantim Dordonnat of the Direcção Central de Combate ao Banditismo a witness told them "...it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants..." http://www.mccannfiles.com/id315.html
 

[Brietta]

From a report dated Sept 27th 2007 by officers Ramos Ricardo Brigantim Dordonnat of the Direcção Central de Combate ao Banditismo a witness told them "...it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants..." http://www.mccannfiles.com/id315.html
 

What do you think, pegasus, did the McCanns plant them or did the gardener?

[Carana]

From a report dated Sept 27th 2007 by officers Ramos Ricardo Brigantim Dordonnat of the Direcção Central de Combate ao Banditismo a witness told them "...it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants..." http://www.mccannfiles.com/id315.html
 

- The owner of the villa said that he had been in the villa after the departure of the McCanns and that it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants, a fact that he commented on with the gardener F**** Do S*****.

- When the gardener was contacted that in spite of the fact that he does the maintenance of the garden, he had not detected anything abnormal in it, namely the existence of new plants, saying that he had some difficulty in maintaining a dialogue with the owner, because of the language barrier.

Not terribly clear, though...

[Anna]

- The owner of the villa said that he had been in the villa after the departure of the McCanns and that it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants, a fact that he commented on with the gardener F**** Do S*****.

- When the gardener was contacted that in spite of the fact that he does the maintenance of the garden, he had not detected anything abnormal in it, namely the existence of new plants, saying that he had some difficulty in maintaining a dialogue with the owner, because of the language barrier.

Not terribly clear, though...

Hi Carana,   If the gardener found nothing abnormal or new plants, I am sure that must have been the case.
I suppose that it had to be checked out, because the owner had mentioned it.