Praia Da Luz Church

[pegasus]

If you knew there were trenches already dug you would take that risk. I don't think there would be people hanging round the church or that derelict house opposite. It could be easy to slip through the back of the church unnoticed in the dark.

A problem with a construction trench is that if you fill part of it in, next morning the construction workers are going to notice?

[ShiningInLuz]

The church in Luz was subject to ---

The convenience store opposite the church.  (It show up very well in a post about 3 pages back, when Gerry and Kate went to a late night Mass.)  Bright artificial illumination.

Being on the ONLY vehicle accessible route to the 5 restaurants just south of the church.  Parking for Chaplin´s down to O Marujo was the hard-baked dirt square opposite the Fortaleza.

Cars, traffic, but it gets worse.  Just to the north of the church is the Luz Tavern, which had been refurbished in Feb 2007 and which had had re-opened for business.  It had, take your pick, a licence to 4am or a licence to 2am.  Stories differ.

Finally, that post about 3 pages back also shows in the background one of the local banks.   (Credit Agricola?)   The importance of that post is that it shows, very close to 3rd May 2307, there was, very near to the church ---

A convenience store aka open late at night.  Traffic!

A cashpoint, aka open 24 hours per day.

Then there are the restaurants.  Some shutting down and going home.  Some not.

And traffic, traffic, traffic.

Luz was being dug up.  To get to the church or the place beside the church you had to get beyond the places that were being dug at that time.  The statements show Rua Helena was dug up at that time.  And a part of Rua Dirieta, near the south end, but some way away from the church, was also being dug up.

Problems, problems, problems.   Too much activity.  Too many people. 

If you think a man walked though this area, (or buried a victim next to), carrying a kidnapped child, please explain what you think about the ATM.  The Luz Tavern.  The 5 restaurants.  The car parks.

ShiningInLuz calling misscarriageofjusticece.  Is the truth an option?

[pathfinder73]

Smithman the prime suspect was seen heading down Rua 25 de Abril which leads to the church. If a witness did in fact see him pass the church then he was heading to the beach. You could hide a body temporarily on the beach/rocks in the dark but you would have to move it again possibly along the beach and up to the cliff face/rocha negra by first light otherwise it would be found. Smithman knew his destination when passing the Smith family. That whole area should be searched.

[sadie]

The church in Luz was subject to ---

The convenience store opposite the church.  (It show up very well in a post about 3 pages back, when Gerry and Kate went to a late night Mass.)  Bright artificial illumination.

Being on the ONLY vehicle accessible route to the 5 restaurants just south of the church.  Parking for Chaplin´s down to O Marujo was the hard-baked dirt square opposite the Fortaleza.

Cars, traffic, but it gets worse.  Just to the north of the church is the Luz Tavern, which had been refurbished in Feb 2007 and which had had re-opened for business.  It had, take your pick, a licence to 4am or a licence to 2am.  Stories differ.

Finally, that post about 3 pages back also shows in the background one of the local banks.   (Credit Agricola?)   The importance of that post is that it shows, very close to 3rd May 2307, there was, very near to the church ---

A convenience store aka open late at night.  Traffic!

A cashpoint, aka open 24 hours per day.

Then there are the restaurants.  Some shutting down and going home.  Some not.

And traffic, traffic, traffic.

Luz was being dug up.  To get to the church or the place beside the church you had to get beyond the places that were being dug at that time.  The statements show Rua Helena was dug up at that time.  And a part of Rua Dirieta, near the south end, but some way away from the church, was also being dug up.

Problems, problems, problems.   Too much activity.  Too many people. 

If you think a man walked though this area, (or buried a victim next to), carrying a kidnapped child, please explain what you think about the ATM.  The Luz Tavern.  The 5 restaurants.  The car parks.

ShiningInLuz calling misscarriageofjusticece.  Is the truth an option?

Shining, I like you.

Something tells me we are going to get a lot of facts and a lot of sense from you.

[sadie]

Smithman the prime suspect was seen heading down Rua 25 de Abril which leads to the church. If a witness did in fact see him pass the church then he was heading to the beach. You could hide a body temporarily on the beach/rocks in the dark but you would have to move it again possibly along the beach and up to the cliff face/rocha negra by first light otherwise it would be found. Smithman knew his destination when passing the Smith family. That whole area should be searched.

Well Pathfinder, what makes you think that Smithman would want to walk all that way to the.main beach?  And also pass thru the middle of town?

I have measured from the JT sightings and haven't used any finess, but the measurements are near enough.

To go to the western end of the big eastern beach via the Smiths sightings ... down Rua D'Escola and Rua Abril 25 then thru the centre of town, past the church, is a distance of approx 0.55 miles
To go to that same bit of beach, taking the direct route, via the quiet alleyways, some side streets and missing the centre of town is only 0.26 miles


I dont really think Smithman would chose to go the round about route that was twice as long as the direct route, do you?


So tbh, that seems to rule out the large eastern beach altogether.  Soz.  Cos if he were going there, he would have taken the direct alleyway route.



Incidently if Smithman had carried on as far as the Rocha Negro, he would have walked approx. 1.17 miles, carrying a child.
 
Forget it Pathfinder.  I am sure you can find a better solution 

[pathfinder73]

Well Pathfinder, what makes you think that Smithman would want to walk all that way to the.main beach?  And also pass thru the middle of town?

I have measured from the JT sightings and haven't used any finess, but the measurements are near enough.

To go to the western end of the big eastern beach via the Smiths sightings ... down Rua D'Escola and Rua Abril 25 then thru the centre of town, past the church, is a distance of approx 0.55 miles
To go to that same bit of beach, taking the direct route, via the quiet alleyways, some side streets and missing the centre of town is only 0.26 miles


I dont really think Smithman would chose to go the round about route that was twice as long as the direct route, do you?


So tbh, that seems to rule out the large eastern beach altogether.  Soz.  Cos if he were going there, he would have taken the direct alleyway route.



Incidently if Smithman had carried on as far as the Rocha Negro, he would have walked approx. 1.17 miles, carrying a child.
 
Forget it Pathfinder.  I am sure you can find a better solution 

In pictures I've seen the church area doesn't look like a busy town centre. But I would like to see images of that area around 10pm on a Thursday night in the beginning of May. The church looks like it's only 50 metres from the rocks/beach. You follow the suspect Sadie. You think he went down the narrow brightly lit steps but if he passed anyone there he would be easily recognised. That defeats the purpose of trying to keep your face/identity hidden from potential eye witnesses. Along the beach is dark and safe and up to the top of the cliff then back down the face if that did happen. I don't think that happened at 10pm and maybe not at all but it's a possibility. Just after 10pm the body was hidden somewhere not far from the church.

[sadie]

In pictures I've seen the church area doesn't look like a busy town centre. But I would like to see images of that area around 10pm on a Thursday night in the beginning of May. The church looks like it's only 50 metres from the rocks/beach. You follow the suspect Sadie. You think he went down the narrow brightly lit steps but if he passed anyone there he would be easily recognised. That defeats the purpose of trying to keep your face/identity hidden from potential eye witnesses. Along the beach is dark and safe and up to the top of the cliff then back down the face if that did happen. I don't think that happened at 10pm and maybe not at all but it's a possibility. Just after 10pm the body was hidden somewhere not far from the church.

The Church garden /little grave yard borders straight on to what I think is the most major road junction in PdL. 
There are only three main roads into / out of Pdl and they all meet there.

So apart from local traffic any traffic in or out of PdL would have to go via that junction.  The busiest junction in Pd next to the church.


ShiningInLuz, this thread « on: July 17, 2014, 09:04:21 PM, gives you the picture.

-  Chaplins Restaurant (I think I remember the name correctly) right next door.  A very busy restaurant - good food when we ate there
-  Opposite the Church, the Fortezela Restaurant.  When we were there that was not so busy.  Doesn't have such a good reputation for food altho the ambiance is probably terrific with wide sea views.  More expensive
-  The Bull just around the corner, again a busy pub/ restaurant.  We ate there too.
-  And another three restaurants south of the church from ShiningInLuz

Also the "Alisuper" on the corner opposite the church.  As Shining tells us, this is the late night supermarket and there is bright artificial illumination

And the cash machine .... people coming and going there too.


PdL in May must have been a quiet place, but this must be the most active part of PdL, Pathfinder.

Personally I think it unlikely that Smithman got as far as the Church

.... and I certainly do not believe he would have taken such a circuitous route to the eastern beach .... twice as far and more people around than the alleyway route.


Doesn't fit together, Pathfinder.

Think about it and try again 

[stephen25000]

The Church garden /little grave yard borders straight on to what I think is the most major road junction in PdL. 
There are only three main roads into / out of Pdl and they all meet there.

So apart from local traffic any traffic in or out of PdL would have to go via that junction.  The busiest junction in Pd next to the church.


ShiningInLuz, this thread « on: July 17, 2014, 09:04:21 PM, gives you the picture.

-  Chaplins Restaurant (I think I remember the name correctly) right next door.  A very busy restaurant - good food when we ate there
-  Opposite the Church, the Fortezela Restaurant.  When we were there that was not so busy.  Doesn't have such a good reputation for food altho the ambiance is probably terrific with wide sea views.  More expensive
-  The Bull just around the corner, again a busy pub/ restaurant.  We ate there too.
-  And another three restaurants south of the church from ShiningInLuz

Also the "Alisuper" on the corner opposite the church.  As Shining tells us, this is the late night supermarket and there is bright artificial illumination

And the cash machine .... people coming and going there too.


PdL in May must have been a quiet place, but this must be the most active part of PdL, Pathfinder.

Personally I think it unlikely that Smithman got as far as the Church

.... and I certainly do not believe he would have taken such a circuitous route to the eastern beach .... twice as far and more people around than the alleyway route.


Doesn't fit together, Pathfinder.

Think about it and try again 

Be careful sadie, you are talking as if an abductor is fact.
 

[sadie]

Be careful sadie, you are talking as if an abductor is fact.
 

Yep, I agree with SY

[stephen25000]

Yep, I agree with SY

Have they shown or proved that sadie 100% ?

You see if she died in the apartment, she wasn't abducted.

[sadie]

Have they shown or proved that sadie 100% ?

You see if she died in the apartment, she wasn't abducted.

Only you and a few odd balls think that she definitely died in 5A.

SY have to test it out, of course, but they have made themselves clear.  Kate and Gerryt, nor their friends are suspected.

[stephen25000]

Only you and a few odd balls think that she definitely died in 5A.

SY have to test it out, of course, but they have made themselves clear.  Kate and Gerryt, nor their friends are suspected.

A few oddballs sadie ?

Not quite.

As far as many people are concerned, it is those who believe in abduction who are oddballs.

Did you hear the Telegraph journalist on LBC with Nick Ferrari who stated unequivocally, there was no evidence of abduction ?

[sadie]

A few oddballs sadie ?

Not quite.

As far as many people are concerned, it is those who believe in abduction who are oddballs.

Did you hear the Telegraph journalist on LBC with Nick Ferrari who stated unequivocally, there was no evidence of abduction ?

They, the whole world in fact, has been subjected to a massive and organised powerful propaganda machine.




So Unjust !   Democeacy out of the window.

Illuminatii / Fascist like cantrol.  The bully boys controlling everything with spin, deliberate organised obfuscation and downright lies

[stephen25000]

They, the whole world in fact, has been subjected to a massive and organised powerful propaganda machine.




So Unjust !   Democeacy out of the window.

Illuminatii / Fascist like cantrol.  The bully boys controlling everything with spin, deliberate organised obfuscation and downright lies

Are you a close associate of David Icke perchance ?

[slartibartfast]

They, the whole world in fact, has been subjected to a massive and organised powerful propaganda machine.




So Unjust !   Democeacy out of the window.

Illuminatii / Fascist like cantrol.  The bully boys controlling everything with spin, deliberate organised obfuscation and downright lies

Again, which side are you arguing for?