If Madeleine was heard crying by Mrs Fenn why didnt the McCanns check on her?

[colombosstogey]

Pamela Fenn:

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

 When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
 As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.

The thing is the DATE is out of sync with what Mrs McCann her self said....

On the morning of the 3rd May she was chastised by her daughter maddy as she asked her why she didnt come when she was crying.......

So could there have been two nights the child was crying.....

[gilet]

The thing is the DATE is out of sync with what Mrs McCann her self said....

On the morning of the 3rd May she was chastised by her daughter maddy as she asked her why she didnt come when she was crying.......

So could there have been two nights the child was crying.....

Or might the child not have been Madeleine at all?

Mrs Fenn believes the crying came (according to her statement) from the floor below. But the McCanns were two floors below her apartment weren't they?

[Benice]

The thing is the DATE is out of sync with what Mrs McCann her self said....

On the morning of the 3rd May she was chastised by her daughter maddy as she asked her why she didnt come when she was crying.......

So could there have been two nights the child was crying.....

Mrs Fenn only heard one child crying on the 1st.     Madeleine refers to both herself and Sean crying - IMO that rules out the possibility that her comment to her parents was related to what Mrs Fenn heard on the 1st - 2 nights before. 

According to Amarals book, Madeleine cried for 45 mins. on the 1st May - although he offers no proof of this - and doesn't mention Mrs Fenn's name, no doubt because that is not what she said.

He then goes on to change the date Madeleine spoke to parents from the 3rd to the 2nd, to convince the reader that it was definitely Madeleine who was crying on the 1st May as it was the very next morning that she spoke to her parents about it.

He also changes what Madeleine said to her parents by claiming she asked why they didn't come when SHE cried (or words to that effect) - completely removing Sean's name from the equation to make it fit in with the claim that only ONE child was heard.

How anyone could claim that everything in his book is taken from the files is beyond me.

[Carana]

Carana, you have no evidence for those affirmations, therefore you're libelling the PJ, not to mention late Mrs Fenn.

As we only have one quote level, I'm copying the post to which you were accusing me of defamation:

Quote from: Carana on October 25, 2013, 03:43:47 PM

    Carly, I think you'll find that there is already a thread on this:

    http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1237.0

    As Mrs Fenn wasn't even interviewed until mid-August, and was not re-interviewed to clarify, nor was any reconstruction as to where the sound may have actually come from apparently conducted, nor was her friend interviewed to corroborate the date/time, there is no way of verifying who she actually heard crying, nor even if it was one child during that time.


My comment is based on what I've found in the files: i.e., nothing aside from a statement taken in August 07. If you have found anything else, please share.

Do show me in which way I have defamed Mrs. Fenn. A recollection is just that, particularly (though not only) for an elderly lady 3 months after the event.

What do you find defamatory in suggesting that the PJ should have interviewed her before late August? Or actually checked with her friend as to whether the date/time was accurate? Or where the sound actually came from?

Wouldn't that be normal investigative procedure?

Edited for jumbled words.

[AnneGuedes]

Or might the child not have been Madeleine at all?

Mrs Fenn believes the crying came (according to her statement) from the floor below. But the McCanns were two floors below her apartment weren't they?

No.

[Wonderfulspam]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html

Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.

 This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did, rather neglecting their duty to guard those same children, although not in a temerarious, or gross, manner.
 

[gilet]

Or might the child not have been Madeleine at all?

Mrs Fenn believes the crying came (according to her statement) from the floor below. But the McCanns were two floors below her apartment weren't they?

No.

Do explain why not.

Mrs Fenn is clear that the crying was on the floor below.

Madeleine and her siblings were not on the floor below, weren't they?

[AnneGuedes]

As we only have one quote level, I'm copying the post to which you were accusing me of defamation:

Quote from: Carana on October 25, 2013, 03:43:47 PM

    Carly, I think you'll find that there is already a thread on this:

    http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1237.0

    As Mrs Fenn wasn't even interviewed until mid-August, and was not re-interviewed to clarify, nor was any reconstruction as to where the sound may have actually come from apparently conducted, nor was her friend interviewed to corroborate the date/time, there is no way of verifying who she actually heard crying, nor even if it was one child during that time.


My comment is based on what I've found in the files: i.e., nothing aside from a statement taken in August 07. If you have found anything else, please share.

Do show me in which way I have defamed Mrs. Fenn. A recollection is just that, particularly (though not only) for an elderly lady 3 months after the event.

What do you find defamatory in suggesting that the PJ should have interviewed her before late August? Or actually checked with her friend as to whether the date/time was accurate? Or where the sound actually came from?

Wouldn't that be normal investigative procedure?

Edited for jumbled words.

Carana, I find "defamation" suggesting Mrs Fenn was old then could have been deaf, heard another child, had no notion of time, thought she called a friend but didn't etc., first because she died and can't object to this and then because Mrs Fenn behaved an exemplary way, shutting her door to the invading media, not jumping on top of the police to claim she had heard cries, just stating a fact when asked, without giving her opinion on it and finally because she appeared to be a caring person, disturbed up to the point of calling a friend because a child had been crying for a long time.
Why don't you let Mrs Fenn rest in peace ? Why should it be the McCanns who said the truth (though they were out), why should you deduce that Mrs Fenn didn't ?
I'm sorry but I can't find, for your regular bringing back the Mrs Fenn issue, a justification that wouldn't be the discredit one.

[gilet]

Carana, I find "defamation" suggesting Mrs Fenn was old then could have been deaf, heard another child, had no notion of time, thought she called a friend but didn't etc., first because she died and can't object to this and then because Mrs Fenn behaved an exemplary way, shutting her door to the invading media, not jumping on top of the police to claim she had heard cries, just stating a fact when asked, without giving her opinion on it and finally because she appeared to be a caring person, disturbed up to the point of calling a friend because a child had been crying for a long time.
Why don't you let Mrs Fenn rest in peace ? Why should it be the McCanns who said the truth (though they were out), why should you deduce that Mrs Fenn didn't ?
I'm sorry but I can't find, for your regular bringing back the Mrs Fenn issue, a justification that wouldn't be the discredit one.

What you believe is defamation is simply questioning. Something anti McCanns loudly claim is their right.

And I am shocked that you are so keen all the time to scream defamation at every possible juncture when Portugal is so keen on "freedom of speech" anyway?

As for your belief that the only reason for looking at a witness statement is to discredit the person who made the statement I am equally shocked. Do you not understand that it is necessary to investigate all statements and to determine what the truth is in them and what may be erroneous? Do you seriously believe that every word given in every statement to the police is accurate? Even when people are sincerely being as honest as they can they can get details very wrong.

[Wonderfulspam]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html

Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.

 This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did, rather neglecting their duty to guard those same children, although not in a temerarious, or gross, manner.
 

[Luz]

Mrs Fenn made a deposition to the PJ


if you care to know the translation go to http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

[AnneGuedes]

According to Amarals book, Madeleine cried for 45 mins. on the 1st May - although he offers no proof of this - and doesn't mention Mrs Fenn's name, no doubt because that is not what she said.

Spreading myths... Benice !
Durante uma hora e quinze minutos, entre as
22 h 30 e as 23 h 45, Madeleine chora dentro do apartamento em que
se encontra com os seus dois irmãos, ao mesmo tempo que chama
pelo pai. Só pára de chorar quando os pais regressam a casa.
I think you'll understand what 22h30 and 23h45 mean.
Mrs Fenn's statement is in the files. Haven't you read it ?

[Luz]

Spreading myths... Benice !
Durante uma hora e quinze minutos, entre as
22 h 30 e as 23 h 45, Madeleine chora dentro do apartamento em que
se encontra com os seus dois irmãos, ao mesmo tempo que chama
pelo pai. Só pára de chorar quando os pais regressam a casa.
I think you'll understand what 22h30 and 23h45 mean.
Mrs Fenn's statement is in the files. Haven't you read it ?

Apparently they didn't.

Check the post above and inform yourselves.

[AnneGuedes]

And I am shocked that you are so keen all the time to scream defamation at every possible juncture when Portugal is so keen on "freedom of speech" anyway?

Why didn't you spare yourself the grotesqueness of that remark ?

[gilet]

Why didn't you spare yourself the grotesqueness of that remark ?

Because I did not wish to do so and I have the right to express my shock at what I read here.

It is not grotesque to express shock at the fact that people who desire freedom of speech wish to restrict that right for others.