Author Topic: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.  (Read 94525 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #240 on: December 05, 2013, 12:20:54 AM »
Stillborn piglets is what Grimes dog was trained on.....later actual human cadavers in the USA....for six months...pretty well trained dog.....
Gnight, enough for one day

off to have a ham salad before bed......hope not to have nightmares
 @)(++(*


« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:22:33 AM by Redblossom »

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #241 on: December 05, 2013, 12:27:32 AM »
Stillborn piglets is what Grimes dog was trained on.....later actual human cadavers in the USA....for six months...pretty well trained dog.....
Gnight, enough for one day

off to have a ham salad before bed......hope not to have nightmares
 @)(++(*

funny how in disasters s  sniffer dogs are always used like in scotland last week and   the phillipines etc  isnt it and the pros dont protest  about what   those dogs find but  they trash eddie and keela??

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #242 on: December 05, 2013, 12:32:32 AM »
It might be difficult to find a decaying pig, even a wild boar. So likely handlers get left overs of pork, like blood, viscera, lymph etc. that they will let decay.
Those who tasted it say the meat closest to human flesh is stag (it's a bit sweet).

That would be the reason why cannibals refer to human flesh as long pig not long stag! They should know
I

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #243 on: December 05, 2013, 12:35:33 AM »
funny how in disasters s  sniffer dogs are always used like in scotland last week and   the phillipines etc  isnt it and the pros dont protest  about what   those dogs find but  they trash eddie and keela??

I wish you would write recognisable English sentences.

When were sniffer dogs used in a disaster in Scotland.

You bring up a good point though.  VRD'S were intended for rescue purposes, not forensic analysis.
I

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #244 on: December 05, 2013, 12:40:23 AM »
30 November 2013 Last updated at 08:53 GMT

A police helicopter has crashed into a busy pub on the banks of the River Clyde in Glasgow.

It happened at The Clutha in Stockwell Street at 22:25 on Friday.

Police Scotland say there were three people on board the helicopter - two officers and a civilian pilot.

Police have not confirmed whether anyone has died but 32 people have been taken to local hospitals. It is not known how many people are still trapped inside the pub.

A senior fire officer said they had made contact with some people trapped inside the pub but the building was unsafe and they were taking a "methodical" approach to the rescue.
Police at the scene The rescue operation continued throughout the night

It has been reported that about 120 people were in the pub at the time of the crash. Many were rescued or escaped but others have been trapped by a collapse on the left-hand side of the building.

Emergency services have erected barriers around the scene and specialist rescue teams are in the pub with sniffer dogs.

    Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond said people must prepare for fatalities
    The Police Scotland Casualty Bureau number is 0800 092 0410
    Callers should only contact the Casualty Bureau number if they have concerns for relatives who may have been in the Clutha Vaults pub or surrounding area at the time of the incident
    The injured have been taken to Glasgow Royal Infirmary, Western Infirmary and the Victoria Infirmary
    The fire service said there were people trapped in the building but they could not say how many

Some of the injured were taken to a nearby Holiday Inn Express, while more serious casualties were being treated in hospital.

As he left the accident and emergency department of Glasgow Royal Infirmary, a staff member who did not want to be interviewed was asked how serious the injuries were. He replied: "Very".

Glasgow's Health Board said it had put in place its "well-rehearsed major emergency arrangements" and that local hospitals had been on "immediate standby".
Scene of crash Emergency services vehicles at the scene

A large area of the city centre has been cordoned off.

The emergency services could be seen on the pub's roof trying to rescue people from inside.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service said it had a specialist urban search and rescue crew at the scene.

Assistant chief officer Lewis Ramsay said: "Our officers are working very hard in what is a very complex and hard environment for them.

"We are in the process at the moment of making the building stable. It is very unsafe".

He said it was "difficult to tell" how many people were still inside.

Jim Murphy MP tells the BBC that "something horrific and serious happened"

He added: "We have had some contact (with those inside) and we are working away just now to make sure that the building is safe in order to get people out.

"We have got 125 firefighters here and they are not only working outside the perimeter of the building, they are working inside. They have been in the cellar, they have been on the roof."

He said "numerous" casualties were removed at the start of the incident and had been taken to hospital and other locations.

Images of the crash showed the wreckage of a dark blue helicopter with a yellow "Police" insignia lying on the pub's roof.

Police Scotland Deputy Chief Constable Rose Fitzpatrick said: "At 22:25 on Friday evening, the Police Scotland helicopter - a Eurocopter EC135 T2 - came down on the roof of the Clutha Vaults pub in Stockwell Street, Glasgow.

"There were three people on board - two police officers and a civilian pilot. There were a number of customers inside the bar at the time."
Crash scene A police insignia could be seen on the wreckage of the helicopter

She said the rescue operation was ongoing and it was too early to provide any details around why the helicopter came down.

Helicopter operator Bond Air Services said it was working with the police and emergency services.

Jim Murphy, the Labour MP for East Renfrewshire, was in the area at the time of the crash and said he ran into the pub to help before emergency services arrived.

He told the BBC there was "pandemonium" as people tried to get out of the pub.

"It was almost like slow motion," he said, adding: "People just formed a bit of human chain, side by side with each other, to help pull injured people out."

The shadow cabinet minister, who had blood on his shirt which he said was not his, described what he saw as a "horrific scene".
Emergency services outside Emergency services said there have been "numerous" casualties

Eyewitness Fraser Gibson, 34, was inside the pub with his brother to see his former band, Esperanza.

"Midway through their set it sounded like a giant explosion," he told BBC Scotland.

"Part of the room was covered in dust. We didn't know what had happened. We froze for a second; there was panic and then people trying to get out the door."

Mr Gibson added: "I would say there was maybe 120 people inside the pub. A lot of people managed to get out straight away, but it was hard to tell how many were actually trapped in the other half of the bar.
Continue reading the main story   
Eyewitness

Gordon Smart, editor of the Scottish Sun, told the BBC:

I can't really believe what's happened. I was on the phone at the time and I heard a misfiring engine. Looked above me, couldn't work out where it was coming from, it got louder and louder and I just spotted a helicopter falling from the sky.

It was falling at great speed. It looked like the rotors weren't spinning but the helicopter was sort of turning in a strange position and dropping at great speed. Oddly enough there was no explosion no fire ball.

It's a busy Friday night, a lot of people have been out in the pubs, there are a lot of pubs in that area. I do fear… I would be staggered if there weren't fatalities from the area it's landed.

He said there had been no indication a helicopter had caused the devastation, adding: "The roof had just totally collapsed.

"There were shards of wood sticking out the top but nothing that said there had been a helicopter crash."

BBC Scotland reporter Andrew Kerr said: "I live nearby and actually heard the helicopter overhead just around that time and there was a definite change in the rotor noise and then there was just silence.

"I thought nothing more of it until I heard the sirens. The actual Police Scotland helicopter SP99 is based just two miles west along the River Clyde. It is well-known for the people of Glasgow to see, covering things like football matches in the city."

Eddie Waltham, a former firefighter who had a friend inside the pub, told the BBC: "A roof joist came down and hit him and pushed him towards the window which is at the left side of the left door."

He added later: "My own reaction was to run straight up to the pub.

"It was amazing to watch just how people were trying so hard to get into this building."

Claire Morris, who lives near the Clutha bar, told BBC News: "We heard this bang. We didn't really know what had happened and then we heard people coming out and screaming.

"Police are everywhere. We are just very shaken."

She added the pub was very popular and would have been busy on a Friday night.

John McGarrigle who said he feared his father had been in the pub at the time said: "I've checked every hospital and there's no sign of him. I'm very anxious.

"I'm just going to stand here till I see casualties come out of the building."
Map of the area The crash happened at a pub in the centre of Glasgow

First Minister Alex Salmond tweeted: "The emergency services are in full operation. Our thoughts are with everyone involved. Scottish resilience operation now mobilised."

Prime Minister David Cameron tweeted: "My thoughts are with everyone affected by the helicopter crash in Glasgow - and the emergency services working tonight."

In 2002, a police Eurocopter EC-135 came down in a field in Ayrshire. All three people on board survived.

n 1990, a police sergeant was killed when a Bell Jet 206 helicopter crashed in bad weather at Newton Mearns in East Renfrewshire.


 8-)(--)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25163045

Offline pinkblossoms

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #245 on: December 05, 2013, 12:47:49 AM »
Rescue team=Rescue dogs to rescue people not find fatalities. 8-)(--)

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #246 on: December 05, 2013, 12:49:25 AM »
Rescue team=Rescue dogs to rescue people not find fatalities. 8-)(--)

8 people died    i  would think the sniffer dogs were used to find their bodies

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #247 on: December 05, 2013, 12:57:54 AM »
8 people died    i  would think the sniffer dogs were used to find their bodies


They were Urban Search and Rescue Dogs, trained to indicate where living people were.

All but one casualty were located by manual search around the bar area where five bodies were quickly identified. Three further bodies were in the helicopter itself. One body was trapped under the wreckage and not removed until the helicopter was removed. The injured were removed to hospital before the USAR DOGS ARRIVED. The USAR dogs confirmed that there were no further casualties.


What has this got to do with Eddie and Keels.
I

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #248 on: December 05, 2013, 12:59:08 AM »
8 people died    i  would think the sniffer dogs were used to find their bodies

Shows how wrong you can be.
I

Offline VIXTE

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #249 on: December 05, 2013, 01:01:04 AM »
8 people died    i  would think the sniffer dogs were used to find their bodies

not all dogs are cadaver dogs.

for example, even in Madeleine's case, the first dogs on the scene were Portuguese rescue dogs.. Similarly, the rescue dogs are used at earthquake areas, to find people still alive !

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #250 on: December 05, 2013, 01:05:50 AM »
USAR dogs are trained to find live people.
I

Offline Benice

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #251 on: December 05, 2013, 01:12:49 AM »
And then the dog is trained to discard decomposing pig's scent, a task which is favoured by the actual search and find of human remains.

Not true. 

Quote from Martin Grime

The result from scientific experiment and research to date would tend to support the theory that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
End quote


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #252 on: December 05, 2013, 01:36:23 AM »
Not true. 

Quote from Martin Grime

The result from scientific experiment and research to date would tend to support the theory that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
End quote
I wasn't referring especially to Martin Grime, but to the cadaver dog handbook of  Andrew Rebmann, Edward David and Marcella H. Sorf on the use of training aids and distractors.

Nobody seriously supposes that a pig would have been maliciously left decaying in the 5A before calling the dogs, though Mrs Duarte wasn't far to believe so in 2010.

Offline Rogerandout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 383
  • Total likes: 0
  • Upholder of Verifiable Scientific Truth
Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #253 on: December 05, 2013, 01:42:10 AM »
I wasn't referring especially to Martin Grime, but to the cadaver dog handbook of  Andrew Rebmann, Edward David and Marcella H. Sorf on the use of training aids and distractors.

Nobody seriously supposes that a pig would have been maliciously left decaying in the 5A before calling the dogs, though Mrs Duarte wasn't far to believe so in 2010.

Do you have a copy of that publication?
I

Offline Benice

Re: Why People who suspect the McCanns get so angry at People who do not.
« Reply #254 on: December 05, 2013, 01:52:33 AM »
I wasn't referring especially to Martin Grime, but to the cadaver dog handbook of  Andrew Rebmann, Edward David and Marcella H. Sorf on the use of training aids and distractors.

Nobody seriously supposes that a pig would have been maliciously left decaying in the 5A before calling the dogs, though Mrs Duarte wasn't far to believe so in 2010.

But as the dogs can detect odour from below ground and from decades ago - then who is to say pigmeat of some kind was not in the ground in the areas where the dog alerted.   

It is because of these possibilities that without corroborating evidence to prove that could not have been the case - they cannot be dismissed as a reason for an alert.   







The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal