The deployment of the cadaver dogs in the underground garage.

[ferryman]

Grime knows when his dog behaviour changes and he is onto something.

Even if the something is only specs of Gerry's blood ...

[pathfinder73]

Grime knows when his dog behaviour changes and he is onto something.

Even if the something is only specs of Gerry's blood ...

Did Gerry travel in the boot? The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the boot area.

[ferryman]

Did Gerry travel in the boot? The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the boot area.

No.

And neither did Eddie react to the boot.

But Keela did.

Blood but no cadaver scent.

(Assuming Keela's alert was not a false one) ...

[pathfinder73]

No.

And neither did Eddie react to the boot.

But Keela did.

Blood but no cadaver scent.

(Assuming Keela's alert was not a false one) ...

Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent on the outside of the car. That's Eddie's job. Keela has to go in very close to sniff out blood and she freezes, she doesn't bark.

Thus, at the hour indicated the work began, with the dog Eddy, that detects cadaver odour, examining the whole level of the underground car park where the vehicles were parked, it having
been verified the following result:
15h27 - the dog 'marked' car number 4 - Renault Scenic - rental vehicle currently used by Gerry
and Kate McCann.
Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert
examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that
began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having
been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car;
04h11 - the dog 'marked' the 'tidy' compartment [map/glove pocket] on the side of the driver's door,
which was found to contain the car key, the plastic electronic card type, with a key-ring of the
Budget rental company.
In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.
At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.
At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.... the present document has been duly signed:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

[ferryman]

I have read the whole of your post, but choose to hilight this part.

Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent on the outside of the car.

Eddie was reacting to spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key of the car (an accurate alert confirmed in the laboratories).

[pathfinder73]

I have read the whole of your post, but choose to hilight this part.

Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent on the outside of the car.

Eddie was reacting to spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key of the car (an accurate alert confirmed in the laboratories).

Eddie barked because it was cadaver odour coming out from the car. Keela freezes when finding microscopic blood. Do you notice the difference between the dog alerts?

[Benice]

Eddie barked because it was cadaver odour coming out from the car. Keela freezes when finding microscopic blood. Do you notice the difference between the dog alerts?

Not necessarily  true.   Eddie barked because he recognised a scent coming from the car.   His handler had no way of knowing whether Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent, or to blood from a dead person or to blood from a living person because Eddie alerted to all three.


Keela on the other hand was only trained to recognise blood. Therefore wherever Keela alerted -  Grime could presume that her alert was because she had detected blood - and nothing else.     This was proved when both dogs alerted to the key fob which turned out to have Gerry's DNA on it.     Gerry is alive and kicking and therefore the alert by Eddie could not have been to cadaverscent, but to blood   - backed up by Keela who only alerted to blood.

According to Martin Grime and all other experts in this field  - cadavour odour does not emanate ONLY from dead people   This is why people who claim someone must have died in apartment 5a for Eddie to alert are wrong.

Those people who keep claiming that Pros are rubbishing  M.Grime and his dogs, could not be more wrong.  In fact   the opposite is true.       Pro's claims are based on what Martin Grime tells us about his dogs and their abilities.       It clearly is the Sceptics who disagree with him - to the point of saying that because Eddie alerted, then someone must have died in Apartment 5A.    M. Grime gives many reasons why that may not be the case - all of which are ignored by the Sceptics.

[colombosstogey]

I don't understand this at all. That is fair and unbiased and if scent was coming from any other car he would've found it. The Renault Scenic wasn't the first to be checked and If they did it separate you would be saying Eddie may have had an off day on the other cars. What nonsense!

Yes he really found something didnt he, very strong scent he was sniffing the air worrying about where it was coming from.

The handler did the correct procedure and took the dog back to the car closest to where he indicated.

Again i have a friend who has trained dogs since 1970 not scent dogs per se, but dogs for blind, commercials, or kinds of things, and I sent her the video of Eddie and the car, and she told me there was NOTHING in it that showed her that the handler was making the dog do anything. She told me the indication by the dog was really strong so the scent must have been too. She told me it is very rare for one of these highly skilled dogs to get it wrong, and they are constantly tested. IF they fail they dont use them again.

Still i can say all this but to the Pros its just blah blah blah...they are not interested in the truth only their own agendas.

The dogs never lie and thats the only truth we need.

[Mr Gray]

Yes he really found something didnt he, very strong scent he was sniffing the air worrying about where it was coming from.

The handler did the correct procedure and took the dog back to the car closest to where he indicated.

Again i have a friend who has trained dogs since 1970 not scent dogs per se, but dogs for blind, commercials, or kinds of things, and I sent her the video of Eddie and the car, and she told me there was NOTHING in it that showed her that the handler was making the dog do anything. She told me the indication by the dog was really strong so the scent must have been too. She told me it is very rare for one of these highly skilled dogs to get it wrong, and they are constantly tested. IF they fail they dont use them again.

Still i can say all this but to the Pros its just blah blah blah...they are not interested in the truth only their own agendas.

The dogs never lie and thats the only truth we need.

 As I have said before, no one on this forum has the knowledge to make any interpretation of the dogs evidence. You are simply deluding yourself. I accept implicitly Grimes conclusion and he is the expert.

[Montclair]

Why did the McCanns leave the door to the boot of the car open for a couple of days and nights just before the dogs were to be used?

[Mr Gray]

Why did the McCanns leave the door to the boot of the car open for a couple of days and nights just before the dogs were to be used?

is that a fact...wheres the source

[ferryman]

Eddie barked because it was cadaver odour coming out from the car. Keela freezes when finding microscopic blood. Do you notice the difference between the dog alerts?

If you read the files (and no, I can't be bothered to pull out the reference) the ignition key was taken out of the car, placed inside a sand box and buried for Eddie to alert to a second time.

Eddie did so, confirming the provenance of his alert [to the car] as the ignition key.

The key was sent to the forensic laboratories and Gerry's DNA was retrieved.

There was no 'cadaver scent' in the Renault.

[Mr Gray]

If you read the files (and no, I can't be bothered to pull out the reference) the ignition key was taken out of the car, placed inside a sand box and buried for Eddie to alert to a second time.

Eddie did so, confirming the provenance of his alert [to the car] as the ignition key.

The key was sent to the forensic laboratories and Gerry's DNA was retrieved.

There was no 'cadaver scent' in the Renault.

So there IS no evidence Maddie was ever transported in the car...in fact you could say there is evidence that she was never transported in the car

[ferryman]

So there IS no evidence Maddie was ever transported in the car...in fact you could say there is evidence that she was never transported in the car

Yep!

[Redblossom]

Not necessarily  true.   Eddie barked because he recognised a scent coming from the car.   His handler had no way of knowing whether Eddie was alerting to cadaver scent, or to blood from a dead person or to blood from a living person because Eddie alerted to all three.


Keela on the other hand was only trained to recognise blood. Therefore wherever Keela alerted -  Grime could presume that her alert was because she had detected blood - and nothing else.    This was proved when both dogs alerted to the key fob which turned out to have Gerry's DNA on it.     Gerry is alive and kicking and therefore the alert by Eddie could not have been to cadaverscent, but to blood   - backed up by Keela who only alerted to blood.

According to Martin Grime and all other experts in this field  - cadavour odour does not emanate ONLY from dead people   This is why people who claim someone must have died in apartment 5a for Eddie to alert are wrong.

Those people who keep claiming that Pros are rubbishing  M.Grime and his dogs, could not be more wrong.  In fact   the opposite is true.       Pro's claims are based on what Martin Grime tells us about his dogs and their abilities.       It clearly is the Sceptics who disagree with him - to the point of saying that because Eddie alerted, then someone must have died in Apartment 5A.    M. Grime gives many reasons why that may not be the case - all of which are ignored by the Sceptics.

Well, thats not what the handler said in his report, they are just your words...his words regarding the car alert were the EVRD alert is suggestive of cadaver scent contaminant or blood when he wrote his report after all the searches in PDL.....

You have no way of knowing that Eddie did not alert to the scent of cadaver coming out the car door seal and also react to the key fob for blood when screened separately in the sand box by both dogs....and please dont make sweeping generlisations about what skeptics believe  ignore or dont ignore...not everyne believes a body was in that car...

eta and again, if Grime presumed where both dogs alert it must be blood, then how could he allow for the possibility of one alerting to a dead body remnant scent and the other alerting to bleeding before death.....he couldnt so he cannot presume anything like that as you keep suggesting