The deployment of the cadaver dogs in the underground garage.

[ferryman]

Actually Grime did (know about the possibility of a dog being miscued)

My experience as a trainer is that false alerts are normally caused by handler
cueing.

Martin Grime.

[ferryman]

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else.   I have never once used the word fraudulent or even hinted at fraud.     I do have an opinion on 'unconscious cueing' - which I do not consider to be a crime, but a human failing which dog handlers can unwittingly develop and which has been proved to happen by testing.

IMO The only 'expertise' a reasonably intelligent person needs to learn about sniffer dogs, is the ability to read.

I have read up on what Martin Grime has said - and as an expert in his field  I accept what he says regarding the amazing abilities of his dogs.     However, he is human and therefore not immune from the same human frailties that other dog handlers, nor in fact -  the rest of us a human beings are.   

I believe it was Martin Grime who said   ''People cannot be right 100% of the time otherwise they would not be human'' - when asked questions about his Jersey assignment.

Good post Benice.

Certainly Grime's claim to have taken his cue from the dog as to which was the principal car of interest in the line-up of 10 is at odds with the evidence of the video of that search.

[Lyall]

Good post Benice.

Certainly Grime's claim to have taken his cue from the dog as to which was the principal car of interest in the line-up of 10 is at odds with the evidence of the video of that search.

"Certainly"? >@@(*&)

Can you explain then why the McCanns chose to take legal action against a writer and not against the people whose actions created the suspicion in the first place?

[Lyall]

I can answer for you if you like

[ferryman]

"Certainly"? >@@(*&)

Can you explain then why the McCanns chose to take legal action against a writer and not against the people whose actions created the suspicion in the first place?

Simple.

Grime has never (to my knowledge) discussed the Madeleine investigation outside the confines of the official enquiry, and has certainly never written a book about it.

If Amaral had done the same, he'd be fine ...

[Angelo222]

Had Grime exercised true professionalism he would have insisted that the cars were not identified as having been used by a particular suspect.  We have all seen how the McCann's Grand Scenic hire car was parked away in the corner with Find Madeleine posters stuck in the rear windows.  Hardly an impartial exercise was it!

[Lyall]

Simple.

Grime has never (to my knowledge) discussed the Madeleine investigation outside the confines of the official enquiry, and has certainly never written a book about it.

If Amaral had done the same, he'd be fine ...

But you're suggesting (in fact you're doing more than that when you use the word "certainly") that all was not as it seemed with the August dog searches.

The McCanns wrote a few insulting lines in the book, but did nothing more than that. Why, ferryman? The impact of Mr Amaral's book was dwarfed by the much earlier impact of the newspapers, and most if not all of the newspaper frenzy would never have happened without those dog searches. Yet they took action against the newspapers (UK ones that is, not the Portuguese) and not against Mr Grime.

Why did the McCanns never do what you do every single day, ferryman?

[Carana]

Had Grime exercised true professionalism he would have insisted that the cars were not identified as having been used by a particular suspect.  We have all seen how the McCann's Grand Scenic hire car was parked away in the corner with Find Madeleine posters stuck in the rear windows.  Hardly an impartial exercise was it!

To be fair, he may have wished that he hadn't known that 5A was where she apparently disappeared from or that the Scenic was the parents' car. I find it difficult to imagine that he wasn't aware of the key locations at the time. If he had been, "cueing" (which may just be the dog picking up on the handler's behaviour to concentrate on specific areas) might have been excluded.

[Angelo222]

How many times was it that he called Eddie back?  Eddie must have thought to himself, shit...got to do something here or no supper.

I would have been curious to know if he had done the same to the other suspects cars would he also have reacted??

[Matthew Wyse]

How many times was it that he called Eddie back?  Eddie must have thought to himself, shit...got to do something here or no supper.

I would have been curious to know if he had done the same to the other suspects cars would he also have reacted??

who was the other suspects ?

[colombosstogey]

Even if it was "unconscious", it is fraud since Mr Grime was supervised by Prof. Harrison.
Would Prof. Harrison have cheated the PJ ? But why ?
People don't do things unconsciously without a strong motive. What would be the motive of both Mr Grime and Prof Harrison ?
Why would they risk to destroy the high credit of the dogs ?
Instead of arbitrarily suspect Mr Grime and Prof Harrison of cueing and tolerance to cueing, respectively, it would be more interesting to try and understand what is a scent cone.
And this is very right :
 All they (the dogs) know is they must find the scent, they don't know they have to sniff each car, its the handlers job to keep them on track.
Once they're in the scent cone (and often many crossing scent cones), the exhausting work is to determinate the source of it. Helping is one of the handler's tasks.

Exactly this is what I keep trying to tell people.

Its like having an operator with a model airplane, you send it right, left etc or straight, the same with the dog. You have to keep it on focus when it picks up the scent.

Its a total waste of time really though trying to get people to understand this lol.

[colombosstogey]

I noticed the fan on the wall. It was off during the screening, but when was it turned off?
Were the cars parked up prior to the fan being switched off?
Could the suction of the fan have made the scent drift from the car along the wall towards the fan?

A great point WS. Its what i was trying to say as well. We have no idea how the cars were arranged prior to the test starting.

Where the wall was where the dog was indicating, (actually it started right by the pillar next to the car) the car could have been there first we dont no the position of them at the start do we.

Scent travels. Like i said the car has to be driven and if the scent was strong enough it would be picked up by the dog in several places which was confusing it, until Mr Grimes sent it back to the car. He had NO IDEA the dog would indicate there did he. To think otherwise would be a libel case.

Ridiculous. Anyway the dog indicated in apartment and villa etc so it wasnt surprising for me it indicated in the car either.

[colombosstogey]

Had Grime exercised true professionalism he would have insisted that the cars were not identified as having been used by a particular suspect.  We have all seen how the McCann's Grand Scenic hire car was parked away in the corner with Find Madeleine posters stuck in the rear windows.  Hardly an impartial exercise was it!

The car next to it also had posters on it.

[colombosstogey]

How many times was it that he called Eddie back?  Eddie must have thought to himself, shit...got to do something here or no supper.

I would have been curious to know if he had done the same to the other suspects cars would he also have reacted??

Your joking right?

There were no SUSPECTS at the time who were having their cars checked were there?

The dog found a scent and was chasing it, the handler had to refocus the dog, and take it right back to where it first indicated, which was actually just by the pillar next to the Renault.  Jeez its not rocket science. This testing was organised by the UK POLICE, nothing to do with PJ.

[ferryman]

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao. The vehicles, of which I did not know the owner details, were
parked on an empty floor with 20-30 feet between each. The vehicle
placement video recording and management of the process was conducted
by the PJ. The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.

Martin Grime

And I am Nelson Mandela ...