The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits

[AnneGuedes]

Thanks....I was just uninformed as to why he was banned

The avatar was Mary Bell, therefore she ?

[AnneGuedes]

You may have misunderstood me. If you read my post again you should hopefully realise that is what I myself was wondering. 

I agree that things should not be solely debated on evidence. It's pretty obvious to me that the evidence proves nobody guilty of either the crime of abduction, murder or concealment of a body. All this leaves really is to debate the rest on the balance of probability. Never enough to convict anybody but certainly enough to point in direction where further evidence may be found.

I understood your idea, Buzz, I was just trying and echoing it !
As the nature of the crime isn't defined, none of the protagonists can be exonerated for good.
The reason why  the McCanns wanted a review is very legitimate : it is the only chance to prove abduction. As far as now they haven't.

[ferryman]

The avatar was Mary Bell, therefore she ?

Convicted of a shocking crime when she was a child, but seems to have led a blameless life since ...

[Wonderfulspam]

Convicted of a shocking crime when she was a child, but seems to have led a blameless life since ...

I've heard she's on the new years honours list.

[Wonderfulspam]

Ferryman, by all means you are more than welcome in attempting to convince me. However I must warn you that based on what I have seen so far, especially regarding the McCanns behaviour, you will have an immense if not impossible job on your hands.

You would need to provide enough evidence of an actual abduction to outweigh my suspicions. For me this lack of evidence along with the McCanns behaviour is the reason for so much anti feeling towards them. Their conduct regarding the e-fits does nothing at all to help their own cause.

If there had been clear, concrete evidence of an abduction then I would have no problem. Unfortunately this is where the whole argument falls woefully short for me. If I was to abduct a child my whole focus would be to snatch the child and make my escape as fast as possible. It would not be to make every single minute aspect of the abduction from start to finish untraceable which is exactly what has happened in this instance. For me that would require a lot more time and planning than the abductor appears to have had.

Abduction is still a possibility.

Smithman was an abductor and it's complete coincidence he had a passing resemblance to Gerry Mccann.

or maybe

Smithman was actually just innocent dad with his Madeleine lookalike daughter.
Madeleine was taken by one of the multitude of other creepy looking perverts reported to be loitering with intent near the ocean club around that time.

[Sherlock Holmes]

If that were true, it should mean that they are not only considering abduction. I wonder if he really meant that ?

I have often wondered that as well.

That means they are considering - or have considered - all theories, including the guilt of the McCanns.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Exactly. If it were true that "SY is taking the investigation 'back to zero, assuming nothing", then they wouldn't consider only abduction.We know from the very beginning that the issue was to find Madeleine who could very well be alive and the persons who had taken her.
Could SY on its own authority go to Ireland and interview the Smith family ?

Don't see why not.

Given that the Smith family sighting is so important to SY at the moment, one would imagine they are already in communication.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ferryman, by all means you are more than welcome in attempting to convince me. However I must warn you that based on what I have seen so far, especially regarding the McCanns behaviour, you will have an immense if not impossible job on your hands.

You would need to provide enough evidence of an actual abduction to outweigh my suspicions. For me this lack of evidence along with the McCanns behaviour is the reason for so much anti feeling towards them. Their conduct regarding the e-fits does nothing at all to help their own cause.

If there had been clear, concrete evidence of an abduction then I would have no problem. Unfortunately this is where the whole argument falls woefully short for me. If I was to abduct a child my whole focus would be to snatch the child and make my escape as fast as possible. It would not be to make every single minute aspect of the abduction from start to finish untraceable which is exactly what has happened in this instance. For me that would require a lot more time and planning than the abductor appears to have had.

If the McCanns were involved in the death or concealment of their daughter then that also appears to have been exceptionally well hidden. It would also have required time, planning, and a level of knowledge of the local area that the casual tourist would be hard pressed to acquire on the spot.

I respectfully disagree that abduction requires a special level of proof that the other possibilities in this case do not. (Maybe that is not quite what you meant, but that is what is implied). Killing and / or disposing of a child, perverting the course of justice, and conducting a campaign of fraud on a massive scale, are profoundly serious crimes for which the punishment would be many years of incarceration.

Very high levels of proof would be needed to prove or substantiate such things. 'Suspicious behaviour' over e-fits and the like is far from enough.

[AnneGuedes]

Don't see why not.

Given that the Smith family sighting is so important to SY at the moment, one would imagine they are already in communication.

They can't by-pass a rogatory mission. I would have thought they'd do it before CW.

[AnneGuedes]

It would also have required time, planning, and a level of knowledge of the local area that the casual tourist would be hard pressed to acquire on the spot.

Why ?

[AnneGuedes]

I have often wondered that as well.

That means they are considering - or have considered - all theories, including the guilt of the McCanns.

If they had first investigated the McCanns, which everybody would consider reasonable, in order to discard the possible crime of homicide and body concealment listed in the AG report, and if they had found evidence that the McCanns aren't possibly implied, this wouldn't have been a more solid argument than Tractorman to reopen the case and at least erase the homicide/concealment hypothesis.
SY is certainly aware it would be politically correct to make sure that a massive majority of UK taxpayers are supporters. Why, if they had means to sent sceptics back to their doubts, wouldn't they do it ?

[Mr Gray]

If they had first investigated the McCanns, which everybody would consider reasonable, in order to discard the possible crime of homicide and body concealment listed in the AG report, and if they had found evidence that the McCanns aren't possibly implied, this wouldn't have been a more solid argument than Tractorman to reopen the case and at least erase the homicide/concealment hypothesis.
SY is certainly aware it would be politically correct to make sure that a massive majority of UK taxpayers are supporters. Why, if they had means to sent sceptics back to their doubts, wouldn't they do it ?

Are you saying that you don't think that the new PJ or SY investigation has considered the possible guilt of the McCanns....any competent police investigation would look at the parents first and I am sure both SY and the PJ have done this ...they are now considering other possibilities

[Sherlock Holmes]

Why ?

Will reply properly later, Anne. A little busy today!

As for Tractorman - do you think he was the real reason the investigation was re-opened?  Or is that just what we're being told?

[Mr Gray]

Why ?

Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child's death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the 'Ocean Club' resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.


because the archiving report thought that it was relavent

[AnneGuedes]

I'm stating a fact : the AG report, which is up to now the authority in this case, establishes a list of possible crimes (some crimes are excluded) among which "(whether) killed in a neglectful homicide" could hardly concern a perpetrator.
This hypothesis is sufficiently serious (as the AG noted, reckoning that it was important to dismiss once and for all any doubts that may subsist concerning the innocence of the missing [child's] parents.) to justify the reopening of the case if evidence against it pops up.