Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Silkywhiskers]

For the record, if you actually bothered to read the entire contents of my post, I did NOT accuse Mrs Fenn of lying per se, I merely said she may well have been encouraged to exaggerate the length of time she heard the child crying. She denied knowing anything, on camera, a few weeks before she was interviewed by the PJ.
If Madeleine was the child crying, I firmly believe she would have got out of bed & wandered around looking for mum or dad. The same thing may well have happened on the Thursday night - who knows - a child who is worried about being left will invariably not settle so she may well have still been awake when the McCanns went off to dinner.
Still, as the lady is not here to defend herself and she never had to stand up in court & give testimony, I doubt we will ever know the real truth.

So what do you base this allegation on?

What evidence do you have that Mrs Fenn was lying or exaggerating?

None?

Don't let that stop you, she's deceased and can't fight back can she....

[pegasus]

A comment posted on 24 July 2007 on the Express website, 4 weeks before the PJ interview. (I can't give a link because it has been long erased). 
 
"... Talk to elderly Mrs. Senn [sic] who lives above and she’ll tell you on that particular Tuesday night she had to sit listening to one of the children “screeming [sic], crying” from 22:30 till 23:45. ..."

[misty]

So what do you base this allegation on?

What evidence do you have that Mrs Fenn was lying or exaggerating?

None?

Don't let that stop you, she's deceased and can't fight back can she....

In the same fashion, she is also not here to confirm that her statement was recounted precisely by the translator.
In the same fashion you can choose to accuse Kate of lying that Madeleine was crying on the Wednesday night.
It is interesting to note that Mrs Fenn's statement was also taken by Joao Carlos, the same Inspector who took Martin Smith's statement. Another coincidence.

[ferryman]

Do you know whether this was the first time the police spoke to Mrs Fenn? Is it not entirely possible that she was interviewed at the very beginning with notes taken, yet only at a later date as the investigation progressed was the information put into a statement?

The statements of informal witnesses (which Mrs Fenn was) are recorded in full.

If the police had had earlier contact with Mrs Fenn there would be a record.

[pegasus]

And even earlier, on 02 June 2007, the crying was known about locally, as a comment posted by a local resident under the article "When The Spotlight Fades ..." on Sky site demonstrated (I can give a link to the article however the comment appears to have been erased).

[Carana]

And even earlier, on 02 June 2007, the crying was known about locally, as a comment posted by a local resident under the article "When The Spotlight Fades ..." on Sky site demonstrated (I can give a link to the article however the comment appears to have been erased).

"Locals" have said all sorts of things. Including that they were all at Chaplins, that the McCanns were at a certain beachside restaurant, and various other "facts", none of which appear to be true.

[misty]

Mrs Fenn took a phone call during the period in which she said Madeleine was crying (at 2300 hrs). It is a shame the Inspector never asked her if she could hear the child crying during that telephone conversation, & the duration of the phone call.
Mrs Fenn also reported that she heard no noise coming from the apartment on the night of the 3rd, not even the patio doors - which some would interpret as the patio doors not having been used at all.

[sadie]

Mrs Fenn took a phone call during the period in which she said Madeleine was crying (at 2300 hrs). It is a shame the Inspector never asked her if she could hear the child crying during that telephone conversation, & the duration of the phone call.
Mrs Fenn also reported that she heard no noise coming from the apartment on the night of the 3rd, not even the patio doors - which some would interpret as the patio doors not having been used at all.

I wonder which would have been more noisy, the patio door being slid open and closed, or the bedroom shutters being raised?

[misty]

I wonder which would have been more noisy, the patio door being slid open and closed, or the bedroom shutters being raised?

The shutters, without a doubt. But Mrs Fenn was watching TV that evening, whereabouts in her apartment & volume level of TV not stated so it is impossible to say what she could & couldn't have heard.

[ferryman]

I seem to recall there was some guff about his book reflecting what was written in the files!

That was guff, precisely illustrating the perils of ex-parte judgements.

[ferryman]

Correct. So do you know if it was the first time the police had spoken to Mrs Fenn?

If there was a previous occasion, I've never seen it recorded in the files ...

[pegasus]

Daily Express 18 Aug 2007
Two days before PJ interview of witness.
A friend of Mrs F tells the Express
"screams carried on from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm"

I have now provided 3 sources, they are two local residents (one possibly a childcare staff member JIMO), and a friend of the witness, all stating clearly about the crying. These 3 sources prove that the accusation someone posted above, that PJ encouraged Mrs F to exagerrate on 20 Aug 2007, is absolutely incorrect. The crying was already well known about locally as the sources dated 2 June, 24 July, and 18 Aug prove, all before the 20 Aug interview of witness by the PJ/UK investigative team

[sadie]

Daily Express 18 Aug 2007
Two days before PJ interview of witness.
A friend of Mrs F tells the Express
"screams carried on from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm"

I have now provided 3 sources, they are two local residents (one possibly a childcare staff member IMO), and a friend of the witness, all stating clearly about the crying. These 3 sources prove that the accusation someone posted above, that PJ encouraged Mrs F to exagerrate on 20 Aug 2007, is absolutely incorrect. The crying was already known about locally as the sources dated 2 June, 28 July, and 18 Aug prove.

Media or unknown sources?

And whose screams were they?  That is the question.

[ferryman]

Daily Express 18 Aug 2007
Two days before PJ interview of witness.
A friend of Mrs F tells the Express
"screams carried on from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm"

I have now provided 3 sources, they are two local residents (one possibly a childcare staff member JIMO), and a friend of the witness, all stating clearly about the crying. These 3 sources prove that the accusation someone posted above, that PJ encouraged Mrs F to exagerrate on 20 Aug 2007, is absolutely incorrect. The crying was already well known about locally as the sources dated 2 June, 24 July, and 18 Aug prove, all before the 20 Aug interview of witness by the PJ/UK investigative team

So 2 days before Mrs Fenn's interview and they already "knew" what she was going to say.

What does that tell you? ...

 Mrs Pamela Fenn 20 August 2007

Mrs Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

[pegasus]

Media or unknown sources?

And whose screams were they?  That is the question.

The witness's description indicates: the missing child's.
Whichever night it was, the mother cannot be the first enterer coinciding with it stopping, as she did not hear it, and was not told about it until next or following breakfast. JIMO.