Author Topic: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.  (Read 143771 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 05:11:32 PM »
The Portuguese police did not have any doubts as to where the crying originated...

Gonçalo Amaral book The Truth of the Lie...

Tuesday 1st May,

For an hour and a quarter, between 10.30 and 11.45, in the apartment in which she is in the company of her brother and sister, Madeleine does not stop crying and calling out for her father.  She does not calm down until her parents return.


Wednesday 2nd May.

At breakfast, Madeleine asks her parents why they had left her to cry the night before, and did nit come back immediately.



IIRC Mrs Fenn doesn't mention a child's name in her statement.

Notice how he changes the date from the 3rd to the 2nd to make it seem as if Madeleine asked her parents the very next morning - instead of 2 days later.   He also changes what Madeleine asked her parents by leaving out  Sean's name.  That blatent deception is to fit in with Mrs. Fenn only hearing ONE child crying.

So much for his book being true to the files.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2014, 05:15:27 PM »
So you believepress over her actual police statement?

Of course not!

Perish the very suggestion that a police force that could leak a lie as vicious as Gerry not Madeleine's father might fiddle with witness statements.

For the record, I don't believe for a moment that Charlotte Pennington said anything about Madeleine being routinely referred to as "Maddie" (for example).

I'm also highly suspicious of one aspect of Martin Smith's apparent statement.

Offline Carana

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2014, 05:21:09 PM »
Were any other occupants of that building interviewed?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2014, 05:22:02 PM »
Of course not!

Perish the very suggestion that a police force that could leak a lie as vicious as Gerry not Madeleine's father might fiddle with witness statements.

For the record, I don't believe for a moment that Charlotte Pennington said anything about Madeleine being routinely referred to as "Maddie" (for example).

I'm also highly suspicious of one aspect of Martin Smith's apparent statement.


Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline John

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2014, 05:22:27 PM »
IIRC Mrs Fenn doesn't mention a child's name in her statement.

Notice how he changes the date from the 3rd to the 2nd to make it seem as if Madeleine asked her parents the very next morning - instead of 2 days later.   He also changes what Madeleine asked her parents by leaving out  Sean's name.  That blatent deception is to fit in with Mrs. Fenn only hearing ONE child crying.

So much for his book being true to the files.

Who said it was two days later?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2014, 05:28:31 PM »
Were any other occupants of that building interviewed?

I was about to ask the same question!

Hard to imagine why they wouldn't have been interviewed, though I've never see a reference.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2014, 05:54:18 PM »

Offline jassi

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2014, 06:02:56 PM »
Interesting how there is always someone along to deny anything and  everything.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2014, 06:04:49 PM »
Nobody needed to fake a friends reunited page. Maddie was heard being shouted on the night - an independent witness told the crèche. It's like Kate calling Sean Seany. It's a very scouse thing. Many names are shortened e.g. Gerald to Gerry.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 06:07:28 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2014, 06:14:22 PM »
Nobody needed to fake a friends reunited page. Maddie was heard being shouted on the night - an independent witness told the crèche. It's like Kate calling Sean Seany. It's a very scouse thing. Many names are shortened e.g. Gerald to Gerry.

Needing and choosing are quite different things, I agree ...

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2014, 06:28:49 PM »
Have you ever wondered where the Gerry not Madeleine's father canard came from?

Read this exchange between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory:

Letter to the National Forensics Institute (INML) from Goncalo Amaral


17th August 2007

The present inquiry is in relation to the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May from P da L.

The English authorities in possession of elements collected from the family home in Leicestershire, which are being examined in an unidentified laboratory, traced the girl's DNA profile, in annex to this document.

As it is necessary to the investigation we request the following:

1. Whether in the tests done by the INML Madeleine's profile was established?

2. In the case of a positive answer to point 1, that it should be determined whether the girl is the daughter of the parents identified ? Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Healy.

3. Information about whether the profile obtained by the INML corresponds to the profile traced in the English laboratory, on the request of the British authorities.

4. If there are differences between the English and Portuguese profiles that a report should be drawn up for this inquiry.

5. In the follow-up of point 4, we request to be informed whether in the English profile the girl is the daughter of the McCann couple.

6. Other information that might be of use to the investigation.

Signed G. Amaral


09-Processos Vol IX Page 2419

Vol IX Page 2419

Reply from the Forensics Institute (INML) to Goncalo Amaral

22-08-2007

And the bewildered response of the forensic laboratory:

Reply to Queries

- We inform you that none of the samples received by this institute were designated as supposedly belonging to the missing girl and we therefore, cannot reply to this query.


- Samples were studied - hair and a piece of cloth - nuclear DNA profiles only being obtained from 4 samples, which upon comparison with the DNA profiles of Kate and Gerry, could not belong to the girl.

- The samples were then studied using mitochondrial DNA analysis, the same was done for the other samples, giving the results in accordance with our report of 9th July No. 2007/000226 LX-BC.

- As requested in point 5, it was determined that the profile obtained by the British lab could belong to a son/daughter of the McCanns.

- The comparison of the profiles obtained in autossomic STR from Kate and Gerry McCann with the profile obtained was carried out.


The forensic laboratory didn't have a clue, and frankly said so.

Very soon afterwards, the pernicious lie hit the headlines ...

Offline j.rob

Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2014, 07:15:02 PM »
What I find baffling about Kate McCann's accounts of what happened is that, it seems to me, that in an attempt to set up a theory, she succeeds in shooting herself and the theory in the foot.

The crying incident is a good example. Kate records in her book that the morning of Madeleine's alleged abduction, she asks her parents why they did not come when Sean and she cried last night.

This question somewhat inexplicably puzzles Kate. Why does it puzzle her? They have chosen to dine out of ear-shot of their children therefore it stands to reason that if they children cry they will not hear them and will not come to them. And there is no earthly reason to expect children of that age to never wake up at night.

She then muddies the already murky waters by asking whether the crying was at bath time.......but if the crying was at bath time we would hope that one or other of the parents were there (let's just hope it wasn't David Payne doing bath-duty). Leaving two year olds unattended in the bath is not what is known as reponsible parenting.

She goes on to ask whether the crying was around bedtime with a rather pointless little explanation of how children often get fractious around bedtime. Again, if it was around the time the children were put to bed, then one would hope that a parent would be there to ensure that they go to sleep.

We then get another rather pointless and irrelevant piece of information: 'it certainly wasn't during the early hours because I had been in the room with them, even closer than usual.'

No Kate - stop playing with smoke and mirrors and fudging the issue. Presumably the crying would have been when you were dining and when the parents were not in the apartment.

However, she glibly covers this base with the flippant remark: 'Could Madeleine and Sean have worken up while we were at dinner?'   

Errr - yes.....top marks for forensics!!

'If so it was worrying but didn't seem probable'. Why would that be? Why would that be improbable - okay, explanation: ' they rarely stir at night and hardly ever (emphasized) before the early hours. Whether or not this is true, I do not know. However in a strange place you would not expect children to behave in the same way that they do at home. I remember holidays with two year olds - they were often quite unsettled to be in a strange environment.

Having laid the ground work with this strangely illogical account, Kate then offers the reader her own version of events. We are invited to conclude that the reason for the crying was for an altogether more sinister reason than that of being left alone at night without their parents (and that is already a bit sinister). Namely that someone had entered the apartment with a view to abduction. A large brown stain on Madeleine's pajamas is also mentioned, to sow the seed that the abductor may have tried to drug them that night and on the subsequent night when Madeleine allegedly disappeared.

On the following page (64) another seed is sown - the subject of paedophilia is mentioned. There is an account of a somewhat inappropriate exchange between the McCanns and a man who is videoing his 3 year old daughter playing tennis. 'He looked embarrassed.......filming in this way made him feel like a dirty old man.'

I'm sorry but that is a very strange conversation - very strange indeed. Again, if true, this is faintly disturbing. Why would anyone find this subject funny?

Anyway, I digress. The point is that the padophile abduction theory has been developed. And the seed had been sown that the children may have been drugged by the abductor. I have my own views on why the McCanns chose to promote a drugging theory. But, once again, having promoted this idea, they then shoot themselves in the foot.

IF Kate and Gerry genuinely felt that the children had been drugged, why on earth did they not insist on toxicology tests? They are doctors for heaven's sake! This would have given crucial information. But no, everyone just traipses around the apartment while the twins lie as if in a coma. At least Kate checks their breathing from time to time I suppose.

To complete the abduction theory, Kate then writes about Jane Tanner's sighting of a man carrying a sleeping child at 9.15pm. It was convenient that Jane Tanner  happened to be in the right place at the right time -spotting the 'abductor'.  We are told that as soon as Tanner heard about the disappearance 'everything fell into place and she felt sick'.

How extraordinarily convenient! So there we have it. The story as told by the McCanns and their friends.

Quite frankly I can see why the Portuguese police was less than impressed with it. It's got more holes in it than a colander and is actually an insult to Madeleine.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2014, 07:25:24 PM »
Of course not!

Perish the very suggestion that a police force that could leak a lie as vicious as Gerry not Madeleine's father might fiddle with witness statements.

For the record, I don't believe for a moment that Charlotte Pennington said anything about Madeleine being routinely referred to as "Maddie" (for example).

I'm also highly suspicious of one aspect of Martin Smith's apparent statement.


You are highly suspicious ??  @)(++(* @)(++(*

Just who the hell do you think you are ?

Estuarine

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2014, 07:49:27 PM »
What I find baffling about Kate McCann's accounts of what happened is that, it seems to me, that in an attempt to set up a theory, she succeeds in shooting herself and the theory in the foot.

The crying incident is a good example. Kate records in her book that the morning of Madeleine's alleged abduction, she asks her parents why they did not come when Sean and she cried last night.

This question somewhat inexplicably puzzles Kate. Why does it puzzle her? They have chosen to dine out of ear-shot of their children therefore it stands to reason that if they children cry they will not hear them and will not come to them. And there is no earthly reason to expect children of that age to never wake up at night.

She then muddies the already murky waters by asking whether the crying was at bath time.......but if the crying was at bath time we would hope that one or other of the parents were there (let's just hope it wasn't David Payne doing bath-duty). Leaving two year olds unattended in the bath is not what is known as reponsible parenting.

She goes on to ask whether the crying was around bedtime with a rather pointless little explanation of how children often get fractious around bedtime. Again, if it was around the time the children were put to bed, then one would hope that a parent would be there to ensure that they go to sleep.

We then get another rather pointless and irrelevant piece of information: 'it certainly wasn't during the early hours because I had been in the room with them, even closer than usual.'

No Kate - stop playing with smoke and mirrors and fudging the issue. Presumably the crying would have been when you were dining and when the parents were not in the apartment.

However, she glibly covers this base with the flippant remark: 'Could Madeleine and Sean have worken up while we were at dinner?'   

Errr - yes.....top marks for forensics!!

'If so it was worrying but didn't seem probable'. Why would that be? Why would that be improbable - okay, explanation: ' they rarely stir at night and hardly ever (emphasized) before the early hours. Whether or not this is true, I do not know. However in a strange place you would not expect children to behave in the same way that they do at home. I remember holidays with two year olds - they were often quite unsettled to be in a strange environment.

Having laid the ground work with this strangely illogical account, Kate then offers the reader her own version of events. We are invited to conclude that the reason for the crying was for an altogether more sinister reason than that of being left alone at night without their parents (and that is already a bit sinister). Namely that someone had entered the apartment with a view to abduction. A large brown stain on Madeleine's pajamas is also mentioned, to sow the seed that the abductor may have tried to drug them that night and on the subsequent night when Madeleine allegedly disappeared.

On the following page (64) another seed is sown - the subject of paedophilia is mentioned. There is an account of a somewhat inappropriate exchange between the McCanns and a man who is videoing his 3 year old daughter playing tennis. 'He looked embarrassed.......filming in this way made him feel like a dirty old man.'

I'm sorry but that is a very strange conversation - very strange indeed. Again, if true, this is faintly disturbing. Why would anyone find this subject funny?

Anyway, I digress. The point is that the padophile abduction theory has been developed. And the seed had been sown that the children may have been drugged by the abductor. I have my own views on why the McCanns chose to promote a drugging theory. But, once again, having promoted this idea, they then shoot themselves in the foot.

IF Kate and Gerry genuinely felt that the children had been drugged, why on earth did they not insist on toxicology tests? They are doctors for heaven's sake! This would have given crucial information. But no, everyone just traipses around the apartment while the twins lie as if in a coma. At least Kate checks their breathing from time to time I suppose.

To complete the abduction theory, Kate then writes about Jane Tanner's sighting of a man carrying a sleeping child at 9.15pm. It was convenient that Jane Tanner  happened to be in the right place at the right time -spotting the 'abductor'.  We are told that as soon as Tanner heard about the disappearance 'everything fell into place and she felt sick'.

How extraordinarily convenient! So there we have it. The story as told by the McCanns and their friends.

Quite frankly I can see why the Portuguese police was less than impressed with it. It's got more holes in it than a colander and is actually an insult to Madeleine.

I wouldn't rule out Jane Tanner telling a tall story as a random event that was grabbed with both hands. She is alleged to have become humpy with the PJ because they thought she was a fantasist. Romancers often help and hinder in police investigations. Like the woman in the Soham murders who claimed to have seen the girls in a village about 7k to the west. Pissed off the police immeasurably when they found out. My biased view is in not knowing 7 people who would cover up for me.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2014, 07:55:46 PM »
What I find baffling about Kate McCann's accounts of what happened is that, it seems to me, that in an attempt to set up a theory, she succeeds in shooting herself and the theory in the foot.

The crying incident is a good example. Kate records in her book that the morning of Madeleine's alleged abduction, she asks her parents why they did not come when Sean and she cried last night.

This question somewhat inexplicably puzzles Kate. Why does it puzzle her? They have chosen to dine out of ear-shot of their children therefore it stands to reason that if they children cry they will not hear them and will not come to them. And there is no earthly reason to expect children of that age to never wake up at night.

She then muddies the already murky waters by asking whether the crying was at bath time.......but if the crying was at bath time we would hope that one or other of the parents were there (let's just hope it wasn't David Payne doing bath-duty). Leaving two year olds unattended in the bath is not what is known as reponsible parenting.

She goes on to ask whether the crying was around bedtime with a rather pointless little explanation of how children often get fractious around bedtime. Again, if it was around the time the children were put to bed, then one would hope that a parent would be there to ensure that they go to sleep.

We then get another rather pointless and irrelevant piece of information: 'it certainly wasn't during the early hours because I had been in the room with them, even closer than usual.'

No Kate - stop playing with smoke and mirrors and fudging the issue. Presumably the crying would have been when you were dining and when the parents were not in the apartment.

However, she glibly covers this base with the flippant remark: 'Could Madeleine and Sean have worken up while we were at dinner?'   

Errr - yes.....top marks for forensics!!

'If so it was worrying but didn't seem probable'. Why would that be? Why would that be improbable - okay, explanation: ' they rarely stir at night and hardly ever (emphasized) before the early hours. Whether or not this is true, I do not know. However in a strange place you would not expect children to behave in the same way that they do at home. I remember holidays with two year olds - they were often quite unsettled to be in a strange environment.

Having laid the ground work with this strangely illogical account, Kate then offers the reader her own version of events. We are invited to conclude that the reason for the crying was for an altogether more sinister reason than that of being left alone at night without their parents (and that is already a bit sinister). Namely that someone had entered the apartment with a view to abduction. A large brown stain on Madeleine's pajamas is also mentioned, to sow the seed that the abductor may have tried to drug them that night and on the subsequent night when Madeleine allegedly disappeared.

On the following page (64) another seed is sown - the subject of paedophilia is mentioned. There is an account of a somewhat inappropriate exchange between the McCanns and a man who is videoing his 3 year old daughter playing tennis. 'He looked embarrassed.......filming in this way made him feel like a dirty old man.'

I'm sorry but that is a very strange conversation - very strange indeed. Again, if true, this is faintly disturbing. Why would anyone find this subject funny?

Anyway, I digress. The point is that the padophile abduction theory has been developed. And the seed had been sown that the children may have been drugged by the abductor. I have my own views on why the McCanns chose to promote a drugging theory. But, once again, having promoted this idea, they then shoot themselves in the foot.

IF Kate and Gerry genuinely felt that the children had been drugged, why on earth did they not insist on toxicology tests? They are doctors for heaven's sake! This would have given crucial information. But no, everyone just traipses around the apartment while the twins lie as if in a coma. At least Kate checks their breathing from time to time I suppose.

To complete the abduction theory, Kate then writes about Jane Tanner's sighting of a man carrying a sleeping child at 9.15pm. It was convenient that Jane Tanner  happened to be in the right place at the right time -spotting the 'abductor'.  We are told that as soon as Tanner heard about the disappearance 'everything fell into place and she felt sick'.

How extraordinarily convenient! So there we have it. The story as told by the McCanns and their friends.

Quite frankly I can see why the Portuguese police was less than impressed with it. It's got more holes in it than a colander and is actually an insult to Madeleine.

The first people to say anything about Madeleine crying (way before they were declared arguidos) were Kate and Gerry, to the PJ, in police interviews, in an attempt to be helpful.

Look how their honesty was rewarded ...