Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[pathfinder73]

For a "dry run" !!

and possibly drugging the kids too!

Seen this in films over bank heists or escape from colditz, never in a child abduction case, KM has a very fertive imagnation



 >@@(*&)

That Fantasy Land Chapter should have been far bigger. When you have a week between statements it gives you plenty of time to think about things but contradictions occur if you change your story or don't tell the truth. There is no mention of what time they got back to the apartment on TUE 1 MAY in the Madeleine book only that Madeleine came into their room in the early hours of the 2nd after complaining that Amelie was crying and had woken her up. Gerry checked on Amelie and they let Madeleine stay in their bed.

[Redblossom]

That Fantasy Land Chapter should have been far bigger. When you have a week between statements it gives you plenty of time to think about things but contradictions occur if you change your story or don't tell the truth. There is no mention of what time they got back to the apartment on TUE 1 MAY in the Madeleine book only that Madeleine came into their room in the early hours of the 2nd after complaining that Amelie was crying and had woken her up. Gerry checked on Amelie and they let Madeleine stay in their bed.

Th "book" certainly rewrote history as well as embellish and disinform.....

[j.rob]

I didn't say anyone was lying.   No-body knows for sure what Madeleine was talking about - because she moved off as soon as she'd said it and was totally unconcerned.   

I repeat if Madeleine - or Madeleine and Sean had cried the night before, then it couldn't have been for long because Rachael would have heard them.   

So maybe they did cry for a few minutes.  Or maybe they didn't.  Or maybe Madeleine was talking about a completely different time, or maybe she dreamed it.   No-body can say for sure because they never got to the bottom of it.

It has nothing to do with anyone lying.

Mrs Fenn heard a child that she thinks was Madeleine crying for an hour and a quarter one evening prior to Madeleine's 'disappearance'. That is in the police files. Of course it may not have been Madeleine. But equally it might have been. That is a very long time for a young child to be crying. If the crying was coming from the McCann's apartment it either suggests that there was no parent there to comfort the child or it suggests that the parent/s were ignoring the child. Either of these is worrying. Mrs Fenn was concerned enough to speak to a friend about it. It's a real shame she didn't phone Mark Warner reception/investigate herself/call the creche and get a nanny to look in/call the police.

Are we sure she didn't call MW reception or speak to them?

Kate states that Madeleine asked why no-one came when she and her brother cried. I do not find this credible. It is unlikely that such a young child would recall a crying incident from the previous evening and then in such a matter of fact way ask the parents a direct question about it. It simply does not strike me as a credible comment. If Madeleine had been crying and distressed that no-one came (which we would assume would be the case if we are to believe Kate's account) then she would likely be tired and clingy the next day. Why would she nonchalantly make a remark like that if, as Kate implies, she was not bothered about it?

It doesn't sound credible. So in my opinion that was a fabrication. Either to confuse the issue over various crying incidents and/or to plant the idea that a potential abductor had entered the apartment, disturbed the children and then fled.It allows Kate to introduce the idea of a potential abductor 'casing the joint'. It may also cloud the issue over the previous crying incident, as heard by Mrs Fenn, and exactly what caused it and why it started and then stopped.

[j.rob]

Where where the McCann parents and their friends on the evening that Mrs Fenn heard crying coming from their apartment for an hour and a quarter? Were there any adults in the apartment? Were checks made on the children? Crying for that length of time that escalates in volume is a sign of deep distress. What was going on?

[Carana]

Where where the McCann parents and their friends on the evening that Mrs Fenn heard crying coming from their apartment for an hour and a quarter? Were there any adults in the apartment? Were checks made on the children? Crying for that length of time that escalates in volume is a sign of deep distress. What was going on?

If she had been questioned in more depth, right at the beginning, as well as other neighbours, perhaps there might be more information about her perception...

As it is, there doesn't seem to be.

If she had found it that distressing, she might have been inclined to ring the OC reception, check with other neighbours, or gone down herself.

[j.rob]

The Gaspers made a statement to police regarding inappropriate behaviour by Dr David Payne (and witnessed by Gerry McCann which they believed was indicative of an interest in child pornography on the internet. They went forward to the police after they learned that David Payne was part of the group holidaying when Madeleine's parents alleged that their daughter had been stolen from her bed by a paedophile.

After witnessing this behaviour, neither of the Gaspers felt it was safe to allow David Payne to help bathe their children. They made sure their daughter would not be alone with him.

[Carana]

That's because there doesn't need to be more information about her perception. If you read the statement she is very clear. She's certain it was downstairs and having lived there for 4 years she should know which direction the sounds originate from. It didn't sound like too small a child and it stopped because a parent returned. Prior to that she sought advice by ringing her friend.

How much clearer do you need it?

- Her statement say from the floor below.

- Nope, I've lived in apartment blocks and wondered where on earth the noise was actually coming from. And I was no where near her age.

- She was elderly and wasn't even interviewed until months later.

- Her friend doesn't seem to have been contacted to corroborate the details.

[Redblossom]

- Her statement say from the floor below.

- Nope, I've lived in apartment blocks and wondered where on earth the noise was actually coming from. And I was no where near her age.

- She was elderly and wasn't even interviewed until months later.

- Her friend doesn't seem to have been contacted to corroborate the details.

Thats pretty clear to me.....mccanns apartment or oldfields apartment, obriens was too far away imo

[j.rob]

Yep! Payne's adjacent with a baby monitor so that's them ruled out. O'Brien in all night so that's them ruled out. Oldfield's child only 21 months so unlikely to be repeatedly shouting "daddy daddy".

Only leaves the McCanns doesn't it? Who then chose to deceive the PJ and the whole world via numerous interviews and also the book. I keep banging on about it but Mrs Fenn clearly states she heard a parent return and immediately the crying stopped. That parent is clearly part of this deception.

But she didn't see anyone return. She heard the patio doors open and she assumed that the parents had returned. One or other of the parents could have been in the apartment. Someone else could have been in the apartment. The patio doors could have been opened by someone other than the McCann parents.

[j.rob]

I have mentioned this before but I see no reason for not pointing it out again and that is that Kate McCann never once checked on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, she effectively left it to everyone else.  The McCanns left all three children and went for dinner at 8.30pm, it wasn't until 10pm and the end of the meal that Kate decided she should check on them.  The point I am making is that if she was so concerned about Madeleine's crying from the previous night she certainly didn't show it.

Yes, presumably there are good reasons why Kate did not check that night until that is she 'discovered Madeleine had gone'. 

[icabodcrane]

At 11.45pm?

It is not outside the realms of possiblity

There was unprecedented  'activity' centred on Kate McCann's phone on the night Mrs Fenn heard the crying from the apartment

It is possible that a phone call was  made to another of the tapas group  (  or someone else  )   looking for assistance for some reason perhaps   

[Redblossom]

- Her statement say from the floor below.

- Nope, I've lived in apartment blocks and wondered where on earth the noise was actually coming from. And I was no where near her age.

- She was elderly and wasn't even interviewed until months later.

- Her friend doesn't seem to have been contacted to corroborate the details.

I forgot to mention this earlier...sounds can indeed seem to come from a different place than where they  actually do, but thats fleeting ones mostly, hearing a consistent  sound for over an hour would hone you in more directly imo...the old lady probably went out on her balcony as well and who knows as a concerned neighbour  probably  went down the lift too to check!!!! in any case she was so concerned she rang her friend about this child that was unattended to for over an hour....if she had any doubt where the noise came from she would have said to police she wasnt too sure but she didnt

[Redblossom]

This thread is also related, why did kate mccanns phone ping so many times around 10 30 that night of the crying starting as reported by Mrs Fenn...unlike any other night previously since arrival  or after until after abduction!


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1805.msg56466#msg56466

Coincidence?

Eta sorry icab cross posted....

[carlymichelle]

This thread is also related, why did kate mccanns phone ping so many times around 10 30 that night of the crying starting as reported by Mrs Fenn...unlike any other night previously since arrival  or after until after abduction!


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1805.msg56466#msg56466

Coincidence?

Eta sorry icab cross posted....

just a  thought but  could kate have called gerry  saying that  maddie was  in total meltdown and that kate needed help to deal with her? ie kate was with maddie in the apartment

[Redblossom]

just a  thought but  could kate have called gerry  saying that  maddie was  in total meltdown and that kate needed help to deal with her? ie kate was with maddie in the apartment

Possible she rang Gerry but no way of knowing, the phone records are not there for Kates phone that night..Gerrys are though..I would have to trawl to see, maybe tomorrow